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As for instances of using pnp disciplines, not that many are shown beyond basic stuff. But Strauss creating a gargoyle means he has thaumaturgy 5 and has the level 5 gargoyle creation ritual which is pretty scary in it's implications.
Vampires can create zombies using the necromancy discipline at level 3, meaning bishop Vick (if he created the zombies himself) as well the zombies in the giovanny mansion are the result of necromancy discipline. How a lonely insane toreador learned necromancy 3 which is a closely guarded clan secret for the giovanni is an interesting question.
The sheriff's shadow teleport means he has obtenebration 6 as that is the power you get at that level of the discipline, which is incidentally not a Nagloper discipline but instead a Lasombra discipline meaning 2 things. One he is at least generation 7 as you need gen 7 to get disciplines at level 6. His bat form is just the level 6 of vissitude (the signature discipline of the Tzimizie, which Naglopers are the african regional variant).
This makes your victory over him all the more impressive as gen 7 vamps are beyond normal characters in the table top.
Ming Zhao transforming into a octopus hentai monster can be achieved by high level combination of the bone and flesh shintai disciplines (4-5 in both if my memory is correct)
The portal to get to her room is just Tapestry discipline 4, to teleport into the room by unlocking the temple's dragon line.
Andrei has Vissitude 5 with his fleshcrafted minions (which can be created with vissitude 3) and his monster form is just the zulo form of Vissitude 5, the jumping in the blood can be gained with vissitude 4-5 (depending on which edition of the game).
Prince Lacroix has dominate 3+ as he can give complex commands to dominate you.
just the most prominent ones I can think of on top of my head
I always thought, even before i read about the PnP disciplines that VV was like "whispering" something to the Regent, after all, everything is about politics in VTM so naturally stuff like that during a public execution would occur. It kinda cheapens it if it's just blowing a kiss, like, what for? There has to be a reason behind it probably.
What implications are there for Strauss exactly? I thought creating gargoyles was just their clan's ability.
BIshop Vick probably diablerized someone, it's not like their cult would have anything against that i think. If he's the one creating zombies.
If Sheriff is a 7th gen and so powerful that raises a question though as to why he's serving LaCroix? I mean, i doubt LaCroix is more powerful than the Sheriff so, the hell is happening there?
And i thought Andrei was a bit more powerful than that. But that's probably because of how he looks lol, looks can be decieving.
In my opinion VV just blows the kiss to provoke Strauss, she is obviously aligned with the Anarchs, wearing almost nothing and he is the most strict Camarilla vampire present.
People believe LaCroix saved the Sheriff's life when he was with the Napolean army in Africa.
Well VV's kiss could have been a provocation i guess. She is Isaac's anarch, and Strauss does have a stick up his behind lol, she could have just been having fun getting a rise out od him.
As for the Sheriff, that's a nice character trait for such a monsterous vampire lol! Staying loyal to someone beneath you and repaying a debt of life. Maybe Sheriff is not so bad at all! Just caught in a crappy situation where he has to serve LaCroix.
Provoking him and possibly causing him to lose face is reason enough, vampires do that crap all the time and toreadors are masters of it being one of the two most social minded clans. The toreador live for that crap.
It's not, while the ritual only requires thaumaturgy 5 it's not automatically learned. Thaumaturgy is very different in the PnP. For one it's not singular discipline like potence or dominate but an elaborate system of vampiric sorcery that uses vitea to power "spells" and rituals therein, These spells are divided along "paths" that define the area of focus of the individual path (alchemy, weather control, spirit summoning and binding etc). Rituals are seperate from paths instead representing elaborate ritual ceremonies that require specific material ritual components, reagents, incantations and conditions. Each of these rituals need to be learned seperately and individually from practice and study to improve proficiency in paths. No student of thaumaturgy automatically learns any rituals, ritual need to be studied, taught and learned.
And this is where this is important, the gargoyle creation ritual is a very closely guarded secret in the Tremere clan one that requires special approval from a tremere of rank of Lord or higher to be taught to another tremere and more importantly it is a ritual that the Camarilla has expressively forbidden the tremere from using as a condition for their entry as a ruling member clan of the Camarilla, meaning teaching the ritual to another tremere is a violation of Camarilla law. The tremere do not break this rule in most cases, even the most powerful and respected regional regents usually will never even get the chance to learn this ritual and most of the still alive vampire who know the ritual are scary old and powerful Tremere who are the highest ranking members of the clan, and their knowledge of the ritual comes from learning the ritual from before the Tremere signed the accord to join the Camarilla which included the condition on banning the creation of new gargoyles.
This incidentally is why Strauss is so grateful if you decide to keep his secret and why he is ready to go to ball for you and sponsor you into joining the tremere pyramid, you did him a big favor by covering up a violation of Camarilla law that if discovered could have gotten him executed by his own clan (to wash their hands of this affair)
Except that's not really possible Necromancy, like Thaumaturgy is a blood sorcery discipline. Diablerie does not confer knowledge of blood sorcery because it is just that sorcery, not natural kindred power. You need to be taught blood sorcery to start using it, meaning he was taught by someone or stole access to the knowledge somehow
It could be because of a life debt, especially if the sheriff follows the path of honorable accord instead of humanity. Or it might also be simply because he benefits from the arrangement with authority, comfort, hunting grounds, territory and with this in mind is smart enough that he makes a much better enforcer then politician. Just because a vampire is old and powerful doesn't mean he's skilled at everything. Lacroix might not be as personally powerful but he might still be much more suited to the role of prince.
His looks is just using vissitude to give himself cosmetic alterations, a vampire can start doing that at vissitude 2. Nothing really impressive and Tzimitzie changing their appearance to look inhuman and mounstrous is just every day business for them.
Wow, you know so much about PnP, and it's so interesting! Now i wish someone around me would run a campaign or something, but not many people are into PnP here. I played DnD 3.5 edition a few times but that's it.
Anyway, thank you for your insight! I love expanded lore like this! Especially when it's still relevant within the game itself.
And it does make sense what you say. Toreadors are social manipulators, even a blown kiss can have more effect than an actual discipline.
As for Strauss, now it makes sense why he's so secretive and worried about the gargoyle! He could die lol, didn't know that. I thought, that if you betray him to Isac, he just gets offended, but now it may seem that he gets executed as you don't hear from him ever again after you do that. You can't choose to side with him anymore so he may well be dead after that. Very interesting!
And yeah Sheriff isn't stupid, i wasn't implying that, and the way he looks he does need an "arrangement" of some kind to feed, so that's probably why he stays with the prince.
LaCroix gets a gorilla enforcer and the Sheriff gets to eat. Handy! :)
Andrei is kinda ruined for me now lol, i mean, that's not a bad thing, i loved learning about his abilities, but now it seems like he's just "one more of them", i thought he was a bit more powerful and older. That would explain though, why you defeat him so easily, and early in the game, he's not really all that powerful after all. And even his Zulo form later isn't that much of a trouble.
I wouldn't say I know that much but I've been playing table top Vampire and other world of darkness games since early revised edition (which is the edition that was running when Bloodlines came out)
My friends are the real experts, I don't know half what they do about vampire as I was always more into Mage then vampire as far as world of darkness pnp games go.
Pretty much, the Toreador are super important in the camarilla because they are so talented at social interactions. Hence why they tend to end with positions like keeper of Elysium, regent, harpy and such (all positions dealing with diplomacy and keeping up with local vampire affairs).
At the very least, he would be sanctionned heavily by his clan, stripped of his rank and likely forced to travel to his Lord or Pontifex's (the rank above lord in the clan) and be politely asked to explain why someone who managed to earn enough trust to be taught a ritual he's not supposed to be taught by camarilla law screwed up so much that some random anarch baron in L.A of all places learned about it.
Yes this is as bad as it sounds.
Andrei is pretty much an archetype example of a Sabbat pack priest or Ductus, a cut above the typical shovel head and with enough clout to command other lower ranked sabbat and give them marching orders, but nothing especially usual.