jack is evil!

[acornco]

so this has been bugging me for a while... and my theory is that not only is jack on a path, rather than humanity... but that he brainwashes the neonate during the tutorial and turns your character on to his path as well!

that's why you can steal, break and enter, kill hostile humans and so on without loosing hunmanity points. because you dont really use humanity... your on jacks path.

not to mention that jack thought it was just fine and dandy to do what he did on that boat...

long story short... i think this is also why the beach malk dosnt list jack as someone to trust.

also... on a truly evil character would could be as entertaining as jack...

[l'homme rouge]

yeah jack is evil, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, abusing us but we still love him xd

[Vepar]

I think Bertram sums it up for you pretty much...

"Silly vampire politicking, you get used to that sort of thing."

and

"None of us are the good guys here." Not even the beach vampires.

[Bumbles_Bounce]

Jack is no better than La Croix except in two facets. He does manipulate you, but he gives you just enough information to make a choice (which La Croix doesn't do) and he's cool about it. Jack is fine with you as long as you don't "step on his toes". Jack doesn't care about anything but Jack and what he wants to do. Bertram does sum it up best just like @Vepar quoted. I've got a secret for you..........Vampires are evil. All of them.

[Vepar]

Originally posted by Bumbles_Bounce:

Jack is no better than La Croix except in two facets. He does manipulate you, but he gives you just enough information to make a choice (which La Croix doesn't do) and he's cool about it. Jack is fine with you as long as you don't "step on his toes". Jack doesn't care about anything but Jack and what he wants to do. Bertram does sum it up best just like @Vepar quoted. I've got a secret for you..........Vampires are evil. All of them.

Exacly! Every older vampire uses younger ones. Jack's at least semi-honest about it.

[acornco]

Originally posted by Bumbles_Bounce:

Jack is no better than La Croix except in two facets. He does manipulate you, but he gives you just enough information to make a choice (which La Croix doesn't do) and he's cool about it. Jack is fine with you as long as you don't "step on his toes". Jack doesn't care about anything but Jack and what he wants to do. Bertram does sum it up best just like @Vepar quoted. I've got a secret for you..........Vampires are evil. All of them.

rofl and he's more charming than la croix... or rather his charm is actually afective. thats old school evil. i didnt realize i was his henchman till forever... uhg... jack.

[dwarfpcfan]

jack's official stats are listed in a couple of the books for the tabletop, the most up to date being children of the night I think where he has humanity 4-5, so yeah he's not a good person and everything he does is in line with those humanity scores.

[𝑀𝓊𝑔𝑒𝓃]

https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Smiling_Jack

Being a supposed pirate I don't think he had high regard for morals and values even as a human so him having low humanity is justified

[Vepar]

I wonder what other Vampires you meet humanity scores are...

[dwarfpcfan]

Originally posted by Vepar:

I wonder what other Vampires you meet humanity scores are...

most are around 4-5, with Lacroix likely being at 3-4, the sheriff being a Nagloper, he doesn't have a humanity score as the kindred of the ebony kingdom (as african vampires are called in the books) don't use humanity as a stats instead having aorun/aye virtues. He would likely have very low scores in both orun and aye as he is very inhuman.

The sabbat leader is likely on a path of enlightenment, likely path of metamorphosis as his onversations and his being a tzimitzie make it a natural fit.

Nines attitude suggests higher morality, likely humanity 6-7, same for Velvet and that movie star (can't remember his name)

most of the sabbat fodder you slaughter are your typical humanit 3-4 sabatt shovel heads

Kuei-jin don't have humanity as they are not kindred, instead they use paths of enlightenment. Ming Zhao's path is hard to pin she could be a low rating resplendent crane path based on her incessant yet hypocritical jabbering about being an agent of heaven and kindred being parasites etc.

[Vepar]

Originally posted by dwarfpcfan:

Originally posted by Vepar:

I wonder what other Vampires you meet humanity scores are...

most are around 4-5, with Lacroix likely being at 3-4, the sheriff being a Nagloper, he doesn't have a humanity score as the kindred of the ebony kingdom (as african vampires are called in the books) don't use humanity as a stats instead having aorun/aye virtues. He would likely have very low scores in both orun and aye as he is very inhuman.

The sabbat leader is likely on a path of enlightenment, likely path of metamorphosis as his onversations and his being a tzimitzie make it a natural fit.

Nines attitude suggests higher morality, likely humanity 6-7, same for Velvet and that movie star (can't remember his name)

most of the sabbat fodder you slaughter are your typical humanit 3-4 sabatt shovel heads

Kuei-jin don't have humanity as they are not kindred, instead they use paths of enlightenment. Ming Zhao's path is hard to pin she could be a low rating resplendent crane path based on her incessant yet hypocritical jabbering about being an agent of heaven and kindred being parasites etc.

Nice! Thanks for the detailed answer! :)

Those humanity scores are out of 10 i presume?

And i also thought most would have average or lower humanity scores except the Toreador. The movie star's name is Ash. Although what happens to him at the end, does that lower his humanity score? Also, he's been forced into obscurity basically, to hide, isn't that like, death for the Toreador?

What's the path of enlightenment though? I thought Tzimisce also have humanity scores, only really low since they're monstrous and all that. Well, most are...

[dwarfpcfan]

Originally posted by Vepar:

Those humanity scores are out of 10 i presume?

yes, humanity tops out at 10 with 10 being a saint with flawless morality, empathy, goodness, etc in the table top.

Originally posted by Vepar:

And i also thought most would have average or lower humanity scores except the Toreador.

Toreador can be just as monstrous as any other clan, their clan weakness in the table top game is completely different from the video game, instead being a supernatural obsession to art and beauty, note that beauty and art is completely subjective. a sickening number of toreador manifest their weakness as a sick depraved artistic sense that lead them to serial killer murders with an overly theatric style like the killer in the movie Se7en with Morgan Freeman.

since this weakness couldn't translate into a mechanic in the game they changed it for the one they have in the game

Originally posted by Vepar:

Also, he's been forced into obscurity basically, to hide, isn't that like, death for the Toreador?

not at all, their clan weakness has nothing to do with needing to be in the spotlight, however since they do gravitate towards art, they are naturally drawn from artists, actors, art afficianados etc as who they recruit into their clan, hence all the npc toreador make sense in the game

Originally posted by Vepar:

What's the path of enlightenment though? I thought Tzimisce also have humanity scores,

Without going into a lengthly explanation that would take several pages, many are. But in the tabletop, it is possible for vampires to abandon humanity all together by trading their morality with inhuman codes called paths of enlightenment that serve the same purpose of keeping the beast from taking control.

All of these codes are monstrous, inhuman and immoral without exception as they adhere to complete different virtues and codes of conduct as to what the code considers "moral". Tzimizie mostly follow one called the path of metamorphosis which is basically debased transhumanism centering around casting out humanity and evolving into what the clan considers a "higher" being

[acornco]

^on that note, freakin beckett must rock a ten all day... won't even kill hunters......

[wolfwarrior]

Well, what is evil? He does manipulate you, and makes sure your doing what helps his plan. But his ultimate goal (to my knowledge atleast) is to Remove the Camarilla or the Prince atleast from L.A. isnt inheretly "Evil" .Breaking and entering stealing, does it really matter when it come to humanity? Unless it special cases like the charity money it doesent matter. And if its self defense or just scumbags do you realy should feel bad for them, if your "life" doesent matter to them why should it to you? I dont know what do you mean about the boat, are you saying Jack did that?

[Vepar]

Originally posted by dwarfpcfan:

*snip*

Wow, thank you! That's really interesting. Nobody here plays PnP versions of Vampire so i never knew any of that, and from what little i read about it, it didn't come up. :)

[l'homme rouge]

Originally posted by wolfwarrior:

Well, what is evil? He does manipulate you, and makes sure your doing what helps his plan. But his ultimate goal (to my knowledge atleast) is to Remove the Camarilla or the Prince atleast from L.A. isnt inheretly "Evil" .Breaking and entering stealing, does it really matter when it come to humanity? Unless it special cases like the charity money it doesent matter. And if its self defense or just scumbags do you realy should feel bad for them, if your "life" doesent matter to them why should it to you? I dont know what do you mean about the boat, are you saying Jack did that?

Of course jack slaughtered whole ship/boat.