Question about Therese and Jeanette *Spoiler*

[BLUE]

In the end of one quest line, you will be able to confront Therese and Jeanette in the club. And turns out they are two people in the same body. And you have options to kill either one of them. In my playthrouth I decided to kill Jeanette, and Therese shot the gun and then bang Jeanette is gone. But the question is “how does that work?”. Is it just like movie “fight club” or something else? The game didn’t explain very much which really bothers me.

[Vepar]

She, ot rather *they* are Malkavian. Meaning ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane, but; Their mental issue is supernatural and can even transfer to others via Dementation. It's not just some human insanity, it's way more than that on several different levels. So when either of them kill the other it's pretty much *real*, not just a metaphor.

You can also save both of them.

[Steerpike3]

Originally posted by BLUE:

Is it just like movie “fight club”

You just broke the first rule of Fight Club!

That's the way I always thought of this quest, like Fight Club and Gollum/Smeagol in LoTR, where one side of the split personality banishes the other. Both those movies came out just a few years before Vampire, I imagine the writers were influenced by them.

[malvex_pavak17]

The tragedy of it all (beyond the death of one of the sisters) is that by the rules of the pen and paper game, a Malkavian that cures their insanity just gets a new one (or more) a little while later unless they reach Golconda (vampire enlightenment where you can break the curse and have all the good things about vampirism with none of the bad, or just turn into a mortal). It is random too and at least their split personality wasn't all that bad a derangement. The best you can get is something like OCD: grooming where you insist on having the most symmetrical, clean suit and tie, trimmed nails, etc, at worst you get like Grout's wife and have something utterly crippling like complete catatonia or suicidal depression.

Really, as bad off as the Malkavian player character is, they are doing moderately well and were I playing such a character I wouldn't try to cure that madness. After all, at least their morality is intact and for all of the wackiness they are perfectly functional, no uncontrollable homicidal rage or the like.

[Vepar]

Originally posted by malvex_pavak17:

at worst you get like Grout's wife and have something utterly crippling like complete catatonia or suicidal depression.

Grout's wife is a vampire??? I thought she was just dead...

Aslo, what do you think the Malkavian player character has? What would that madness be called?

[malvex_pavak17]

Originally posted by Vepar:

Originally posted by malvex_pavak17:

at worst you get like Grout's wife and have something utterly crippling like complete catatonia or suicidal depression.

Grout's wife is a vampire??? I thought she was just dead...

Aslo, what do you think the Malkavian player character has? What would that madness be called?

He talks about finding a cure for her so I would think she was Embraced by him, yes, though I admit there is no hard evidence I have at hand and I am currently far past that point in my playthrough to check with Auspex if she is alive, a vampire or what. She may not even show up and I can't be sure if that is a bug or if she is dead and Grout is crazy and is trying to raise her from the dead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Schizophrenia, pop culture edition? Mixed with Oracle Merit of course. Maybe some delusions as well, the pc Malkavian is rather hard to pin down...

[Vepar]

Originally posted by malvex_pavak17:

Originally posted by Vepar:

Grout's wife is a vampire??? I thought she was just dead...

Aslo, what do you think the Malkavian player character has? What would that madness be called?

He talks about finding a cure for her so I would think she was Embraced by him, yes, though I admit there is no hard evidence I have at hand and I am currently far past that point in my playthrough to check with Auspex if she is alive, a vampire or what. She may not even show up and I can't be sure if that is a bug or if she is dead and Grout is crazy and is trying to raise her from the dead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Schizophrenia, pop culture edition? Mixed with Oracle Merit of course. Maybe some delusions as well, the pc Malkavian is rather hard to pin down...

Hmm, i always thought he was searching for a cure for himslef, or maybe he wanted to "cure death" of his wife. I mean, i wouldn't put that past him cause he's crazy, all Malkavians are, but he got it prettty heavy lol. Even worse than Therese and Janette. I always figured him for a "mad scientist" type, i mean, he does have a whole asylum of experiments. It's been a while since i listened to Grout's logs though, i don't remember if it even mentions how he got embraced, or how his wife died.

As for Auspex, also... It's been a while, and i'm not sure i even tried ti lol. :P I always just speed through that area cause there's nothing in there except his wife. But interesting, Auspex would answer a lot of questions here. Meaning, of course, if the developers planned on it, and it's not like a bug or an oversight on their part.

Also, do you think Therese or Janette (whichever you chose), cured their insanity by killing the other sister? That doesn't seem "cured" somehow lol. :P But if that's so, then yeah, it's double tragic because, whoever is left is just going to get another insanity...Maybe a worse one.

[malvex_pavak17]

Yes he talks about his Embrace a little, he laments that he did not get to talk to his sire because he was unconscious when the orderlies locked "the plague ridden woman in the roaming bin where she met her fate at dawn" and he mentions the cure is for his wife specifically.

As for Therese and Jeanette, their "cure", well, Malkavians have an interesting relationship with logic that may make it work, so probably.

[Wesp5]

Originally posted by Vepar:

As for Auspex, also... It's been a while, and i'm not sure i even tried ti lol. :P

I just did and she has no aura at all, because she is a prop_dynamic :). I might be able to change that, but I'm not sure because of her posture and the rotating camera scene...

[malvex_pavak17]

Originally posted by wesp5:

Originally posted by Vepar:

As for Auspex, also... It's been a while, and i'm not sure i even tried ti lol. :P

I just did and she has no aura at all, because she is a prop_dynamic :). I might be able to change that, but I'm not sure because of her posture and the rotating camera scene...

Would you make her a vampire then? It is what seems to make the most sense to me...

[Vepar]

Originally posted by wesp5:

Originally posted by Vepar:

As for Auspex, also... It's been a while, and i'm not sure i even tried ti lol. :P

I just did and she has no aura at all, because she is a prop_dynamic :). I might be able to change that, but I'm not sure because of her posture and the rotating camera scene...

Cool! Thanks for the info!
So, assuming this was intentional, then the lore is, she's dead?

Originally posted by malvex_pavak17:

Originally posted by wesp5:

I just did and she has no aura at all, because she is a prop_dynamic :). I might be able to change that, but I'm not sure because of her posture and the rotating camera scene...

Would you make her a vampire then? It is what seems to make the most sense to me...

That would be quite a reveal for some Auspex character to go in and discover an aura on her! :D

[Wesp5]

Originally posted by Vepar:

That would be quite a reveal for some Auspex character to go in and discover an aura on her! :D

Sadly, I made a small test and there is no way to get an aura on Grout's Wife in her current state. Also I really don't know if there shouldn't. If she is a vampire she might be in topor, can Auspex see this in the first place? Like does Auspex see vampires not really alive?

[malvex_pavak17]

Originally posted by wesp5:

Originally posted by Vepar:

That would be quite a reveal for some Auspex character to go in and discover an aura on her! :D

Sadly, I made a small test and there is no way to get an aura on Grout's Wife in her current state. Also I really don't know if there shouldn't. If she is a vampire she might be in topor, can Auspex see this in the first place? Like does Auspex see vampires not really alive?

I would have to go diving through my rule books (which I don't feel like atm maybe later I will post again) but aura sight works by seeing the the soul, not whether something is alive because vampires are not alive in the first place (they are undead), vampires in torpor don't suddenly become soulless though I would imagine a change in their aura.

[Wesp5]

I just managed a tricky way to get that aura in yet, but it will be plus patch only :)!

[Vepar]

Originally posted by wesp5:

I just managed a tricky way to get that aura in yet, but it will be plus patch only :)!

Nice! :)
Now just to figure out if she's actually dead ir not. :P

[malvex_pavak17]

Originally posted by wesp5:

I just managed a tricky way to get that aura in yet, but it will be plus patch only :)!

Thank you. I have been scouring the V20 rule book but I have found nothing on the changes of a vampire's aura in Torpor. I think there is no change but perhaps I missed it or there is something in a previous edition (I refuse to consider V5 canon so I am not going to bother there). Does anyone else have any knowledge about the rules of seeing the auras of vampires in torpor with Auspex?