Our characters Sire - Still alive? | "Friend" email

[DarkMasta]

This was probably discussed already here...and I already discussed this on Gamebanshee some years back but what the hell.

So, what are your thoughts on the characters Sire. You think the guy on the couch is the sire? Or is it possible that he is still alive. But then we are faced with this. If that's not him and he escaped, why would that dude take the fall? But then again...this is a world of intrigues and personal agendas.

What I'm saying is, it's possible the characters sire could still be alive, and maybe is the one sending the emails as a "Friend".

Andrei metions that "our" blood is all that saved us. The power. Whose power? If we were embraced by a little ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, why would we become so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ powerful and have these older vampires make remarks like this. And if we "inherited" something, it must have been from a powerful vampire...a powerful vampire that maybe couldn't be taken out that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ easy.

What do you say?

[Maddy]

I think our sire truly died, that the man in the couch it's Mercury, since this is the way we first talk to him. Also, I believe the "friend" it's the taxi driver, as in the end, it appears that he may be Cain himself.

[DarkMasta]

Man on The couch i mean The vampires on The intro after The embrace

[Bumbles_Bounce]

That won't fly DarkMasta. The guy on the couch is "someones" ghoul. It's implicit that it is LaCroix, but if that were so, Mercurio couldn't be trusted either.

• Rosa says, "is it the Dark Father behind him (you)", and that you can only trust the man on the couch (Mercurio) and the Lone Wolf (Beckett).
  
  
• Your sire could still be alive. It could be Grout. Grout faked his death after being embraced. Who's to say he wouldn't do it again. Grout is supposedly dead because he was staked out on his bed (paralyzed) and implicitly exposed to sun. (There are no windows or sun roofs in his room). Vampires disentegrate upon being given final death. (I havent read the clan books, or the Old WoD manuals, so I'm not sure if there is already established canon for that. But the game does not follow Old WoD canonically and WoD allegedly claims that the game is also Canon. Is this Intentional Ambiguity)? There is also posts stating that the cabbie is a Malk who believes he is Caine (Grout) or if Grout is dead the AS could also have contained Malkav himself "a forgotten King". Again not sure if the clan books state who that Malk actually is, LaCroix sends Ming Xao to kill Grout as Nines, and she sees the "supposedly dead Grout", She lies to La Croix saying she killed him (or she actually kills him if he is actually dead). She is going to phuck LaCroix over anyway in the end after the Kuae-Jin and Camarilla alliance (possibly with or without Hollywood's help, if you are in the camp that believes Isaac is a Cammy spy) wipes out the Anarchs and the Sabbat. The Camarilla presence is just a token force in any case and not strong enough to overthrow the Anarchs or LaCroix would already have done it.
  
  
• There is also the case that Meserach was in fact a Vampire (explaining why the crew of the Dane were all dead). He is staked out in the chair in one or two of the endings and that you were on that ship and sired by him prior to Jack getting to him and staking him. Jack didn't count on you and immediately saw your usefulness (as he put Johansen on the AS trail anyway) in furthering his goals of strengthing the Anarch position and thereby thwarting LA's takeover by ANY faction and keeping it an Anarch Free State. Both Jack (while he claims Anarch) and Beckett are technically Caitiff (They do their own thing and no one phucks with them) This would give creedence to the sense of pressure or dread felt by those in LA and the World as alluded to by several NPCs and more notably Beckett. Beckett is not just there because of the AS or the Thin Bloods as he states. He lies to you because he is checking YOU out because he feels it too. Several NPCs state or allude in dialogue during the game that they have never sensed such power in one so young, most notably Strauss. Andrei even tells you in your first meeting that he smelled the power in your blood and that you are unaware of it, and he tries to Dominate or Persuade you into "abandoning your Cainite powers" (not using your abilities, talents, disciplines) like a ♥♥♥♥♥' so to be devoured by his "creations" (another lie, he wants to diablerize you).
  
  
• In your second meeting with Andrei he tells you that you have only survived thus far because of the power of your blood]. He tries to Dominate or Persuade you into joining him so he can Diablerize you and gain your power. This gives creedence to the argument that you were sired by Caine, Your supposed "sire" was sacrificed (also relating to the bullet point above concerning Jack and the previous point, if not in the Grout is not dead camp or Grout is dead and your sire is Caine) and explains why you have so much power as a fledging but need time and experience to develop. Caine sends you the mysterious emails, watches over you and guides you and takes you where you need to go. Jack comes to save your ass in Griffith Park, if you were still alive, because Caine didn't want no part of any werewolf either and Jack's blood commanded him to act, as told to you by Skelter and why..
  
  
• Lastly, there is argument that Strauss is the one sending the emails. He is the real head of the Camarilla in LA anyway. This is revealed if you play a Malkavian character. You tell Strauss that upon his head you see an iron crown and the jester dances before him. Strauss replies, "Hmmm. Be cautious when speaking of these visions, neonate. Truth is rarely welcomed by those who cannot see it. There are many Kindred who will be less, shall we say, accepting of it than I am". This also reinforces the arguments, that you were either sired by Meserach, Grout, or Caine. They recognized LaCroix's lust for power, misue of said power ( also stated by Strauss), and wanted him removed to restrengthen the Camarilla.. Skelter speaks to the truth, you are bound to the blood elders/ancients and the blood will make you obey. He didn't know real oppression until after his embrace. Also Jack is not acting totally on his own. He is either working with Grout (if alive) or obeying Meserach or Caine. That is why Jack is not nearly as bad (evil) as LaCroix.
  
  tldr: Phuck you and your lazy azz. This dissertation was just my thoughts.

[Maddy]

I see your point Bumbles_Bounce, put this wouldn't make sense since you chose which clan you play. There are 7 clans to play with, even if it was Caine, just because he's the first vampire wouldn't mean you could be any clan in game.

Also, Idk how the original Vampire RPG was, but in most pc RPGs, your character becomes the strongest one or is destiny for something big, it's how RPGs usually work. You are badass and that's it.

And how the sire could be alive? He/she was killed in front on everyone, caught minutes if not less after the embrace.

I understand your thought about Grout, and I also agree it's strange how he died, but it's very unlike he's nod dead.

Lastly, I think the producers put the "friend" as a big mistery, and they'll probably never awnser that, making each player think who he/she may have been.

Don't get me wrong, it's really nice how you thought about it all, but sometimes, the simplest awnser it's the rigth one.

[Wesp5]

I agree with Maddy, these speculations are interesting but most of them make no sense at all. Messerach was no vampire! If you listen to Johansen it is obvious that he was just the ghoul of a female vampire called Lamastu, which reminds me of the "Queen of the damned" movie which this might be a reference to, like with the Dane and the original "Dracula" novel. Also Grout is dead, because Ming killed him! It would make no sense for her to keep a dangerous enemy like Grout alive that could spoil her plans with LaCroix. Besides that Grout would never send emails as he is clearly stuck in old times as his whole mansion shows. Still there is something wrong with your sire, why does she/he not speak out in the theatre? How could the Sheriff know that you were just embaced? This looks like a setup to kill your Sire, and regardless of whether the cabbie is Caine or not, I believe that he and Jack are behind it already then, setting all pieces up including you...

[DarkMasta]

With that I agree.

Grout is dead.
Messerach is just a human. A dead body on a chair. Not a staked vampire.
The Dane massacre was caused by Jack.

As for the sire. I think you already got my point. Why is one so powerful, if his sire was just some guy who got caught and killed off so easy, who doesnt speak or anything. And how did they know it and caught him in the same night.

Btw. Since Messerach is just a human. Why did Beckett. Being the calm and rational person that he is. Freak out at the end. Thinking that Gehenna had begun. What has he discovered to make him react like that.

[Vepar]

I think Beckett got word on what was actually in the AS, and wanted to warn you but couldn't say it directly because someone might hear and warn LaCroix and LaCroix might think Becket had something to do with it so he used what he knows best, a history lesson. Then he ran away because clearly what happens in the explosive end won't make LA a peacful place, so he didn't want to stay in the middle of a war, he's not into politics. He just warned you as a friend before he got out.

[Vepar]

Also, as for the sire, it's somewhat weird though... Someone on this forum (Obtenebris i think?), said that it was calculated that the player was a rather low generation vampire because of how many blood points we get to spend and that eventually you get to shrug off dominate and simmilar disciplines even from way older vampires than yourself suggesting you're even more powerful than they are even though they are older.

Soo... Your sire is even more powerful than you. And you kill the sheriff that supposedly executed your sire while being a vampire for a way less time than your sire probably was. So how could the sheriff and a few random vampires just hold your sire on that stage while he/she does nothing?

Unless that was planned and your sire allowed for him/her to be killed to set things in motion, but then again, that's way extreme, why not do it themselves?

And for what plan? You can choose who you side with so what's the endgame here? Except to kick LaCroix a$$, which is common to all endings, but even then, even with Camarilla protection, any of the vampires you meet can take on LaCroix...

And the last most plausable explanation, it's for gameplay purposes that you get to be that strong, but it's fun to overthink things from time to time. :)

[Wesp5]

Originally posted by Vepar:

So how could the sheriff and a few random vampires just hold your sire on that stage while he/she does nothing?

This might be explained in the Bloodlines Prelude mod which is currently in the works :)!

[Vepar]

Originally posted by wesp5:

Originally posted by Vepar:

So how could the sheriff and a few random vampires just hold your sire on that stage while he/she does nothing?

This might be explained in the Bloodlines Prelude mod which is currently in the works :)!

Oohhh, colour me intrigued! :D

[pizzacruelty]

i always though that when rosa say "why is he smiling? is it the father behind him?" she referes to the ending where smiling jack is the one smiling, and the cabbie is literaly behind him with clearly a powerful vampire aura. alot of avidance point toward the cabbie being caine.

[DarkMasta]

Originally posted by wesp5:

Originally posted by Vepar:

So how could the sheriff and a few random vampires just hold your sire on that stage while he/she does nothing?

This might be explained in the Bloodlines Prelude mod which is currently in the works :)!

WHAT? Where, when wtf uoasbdnasd. Link?

[DarkMasta]

Originally posted by pizzacruelty:

i always though that when rosa say "why is he smiling? is it the father behind him?" she referes to the ending where smiling jack is the one smiling, and the cabbie is literaly behind him with clearly a powerful vampire aura. alot of avidance point toward the cabbie being caine.

Yep, same opinion

[Wesp5]

Originally posted by DarkMasta:

Originally posted by wesp5:

This might be explained in the Bloodlines Prelude mod which is currently in the works :)!

WHAT? Where, when wtf uoasbdnasd. Link?

It's still early in production, but you can get a first look and discuss it at Planet Vampire: https://forums.planetvampire.com/bloodlines-modding/bloodlines-prelude-new-screenshot!/

[Bumbles_Bounce]

Originally posted by Maddy:

I see your point Bumbles_Bounce, put this wouldn't make sense since you chose which clan you play. There are 7 clans to play with, even if it was Caine, just because he's the first vampire wouldn't mean you could be any clan in game.

Also, Idk how the original Vampire RPG was, but in most pc RPGs, your character becomes the strongest one or is destiny for something big, it's how RPGs usually work. You are badass and that's it.

And how the sire could be alive? He/she was killed in front on everyone, caught minutes if not less after the embrace.

I understand your thought about Grout, and I also agree it's strange how he died, but it's very unlike he's nod dead.

Lastly, I think the producers put the "friend" as a big mistery, and they'll probably never awnser that, making each player think who he/she may have been.

Don't get me wrong, it's really nice how you thought about it all, but sometimes, the simplest awnser it's the rigth one.

(*) 1. I should have stated I was looking at it from a Malk point of view.

(*) 2. true

(*) 3. Your sire is probably alive, the one you were caught with was a sacrificed mook as I stated

(*) 4. It is unlikely, but there was room for argument.

(*) 5. The Letters from a Friend are either from Strauss, your TRUE sire and/or Cabbie

(*)6. Once again you are correct. As I stated those were justs my thoughts on the matter