Did Nines really save you?

[Deranged Duck]

from the Sabbat ambush, or did he and/or jack plan the ambush?

[Deranged Duck]

Originally posted by Steerpike3:

Originally posted by Ninja-SMG:

Ah Ah AH, Jack never said he was an anarch, he only said he had Brujah blood in him, And I'm not discounting LaCroix's sheriff setting the fire either, (Wings make for a quick getaway from werewolves) I'm just saying that Jack had the potential to do so, after all, Jacks "Xanatos Gambit" means he could never lose, no matter what happened.

Either you're role-playing in these Steam forums as a Malkavian, or you've only played the game once and you're just winging it.

I've played the game multiple times and always learn something new from each playthrough ;)
and I like seeing the characters in a different light each new playthrough, it keeps things fresh and really let's the writing shine through,

For example, Is Miss Velvet Velour using you? or is she actually being nice? She could in fact be one of the best manipulators in the game who hides her secrets so well that no one really knows for sure.

[Well N Downed]

Originally posted by Ninja-SMG:

Originally posted by Steerpike3:

Either you're role-playing in these Steam forums as a Malkavian, or you've only played the game once and you're just winging it.

I've played the game multiple times and always learn something new from each playthrough ;)
and I like seeing the characters in a different light each new playthrough, it keeps things fresh and really let's the writing shine through,

For example, Is Miss Velvet Velour using you? or is she actually being nice? She could in fact be one of the best manipulators in the game who hides her secrets so well that no one really knows for sure.

Well, Jack pretty much puts a trap in the sarcophagus and then tells you about diablerine and the antediluvians....

[Deranged Duck]

Originally posted by ＲａｍｅｎＧｏｄ４４:

Originally posted by Ninja-SMG:

I've played the game multiple times and always learn something new from each playthrough ;)
and I like seeing the characters in a different light each new playthrough, it keeps things fresh and really let's the writing shine through,

For example, Is Miss Velvet Velour using you? or is she actually being nice? She could in fact be one of the best manipulators in the game who hides her secrets so well that no one really knows for sure.

Well, Jack pretty much puts a trap in the sarcophagus and then tells you about diablerine and the antediluvians....

Only after the hype train about what's in the sarcophagus had left the station, I don't doubt that Jack wants to keep you alive, but pretty much he's indirectely telling you whats going on around town and with your "Prince" and any lessons that jack'll give you are hard, but necessary lessons about what's going to keep you alive during these final nights, and also, you might have been jack's unwitting source for what all the major players are doing. (For the first playthorugh at least)

[Noticula]

Jack did not set fire in the Griffith Park. He has no ulterior motive, he has a chaotic neutral nature. He is the one who found you first after the blood hunt was announced, he sensed Anarch/Camarilla alliance was bs ruse. At this point in the game you see the clear picture. Kuei-jin and LaCroix made a short lived alliance. Both thought they could f#ck each other over. Ming Xiao loathes kindred, she collaborated witth the Mandarin. LaCroix ,of course wanted to eliminate Anarchs in the process but failed to do so after you found out about the alliance from Ming Xiao herself. I don´t understand why do you feel this way about Jack. He plays the game, he fools everybody but only to mess with LaCroix and cause some chaos along the way.
Yes, VV is nice and manipulative. She is using you but only if you are willing.

[Deranged Duck]

Originally posted by Elysia:

Jack did not set fire in the Griffith Park. He has no ulterior motive, he has a chaotic neutral nature. He is the one who found you first after the blood hunt was announced, he sensed Anarch/Camarilla alliance was bs ruse. At this point in the game you see the clear picture. Kuei-jin and LaCroix made a short lived alliance. Both thought they could f#ck each other over. Ming Xiao loathes kindred, she collaborated witth the Mandarin. LaCroix ,of course wanted to eliminate Anarchs in the process but failed to do so after you found out about the alliance from Ming Xiao herself. I don´t understand why do you feel this way about Jack. He plays the game, he fools everybody but only to mess with LaCroix and cause some chaos along the way.
Yes, VV is nice and manipulative. She is using you but only if you are willing.

Spot on mate, Still the writing for this game is so good, that you can see things that 'Might" not be there, 10/10 would play again.

[fenke]

If anyone fingered us it was LaCroix and either way Nines could easily figure out what was likely going to happen.

Smiling Jack and his cabby-buddy planned a lot but not in the smallest detail, I think they rigged the coffin and set you en-route to succes, but without planning any detail.

Over all endings

• the Sabbat are always destroyed,
  
• either the Cammarila or Kuei-Jin or both are destroyed while
  
• the Anarchs always survive

This leads me to believe that the elimination of the Sabbat and their leader was their goal, alongside the survival and strengthening of the Anarchs.
Now, Jack's interest in the Anarchs is obvious and with Andrei and the cab-driver both obviously european, old and powerfull I reckon the pair always get their way.

[fenke]

Originally posted by magniᴬc:

I wonder if Jack actually slaughtered Dane's crew and carry Messerach outta there. If he did he must have had access to best information network available. Gary must've helped him with that...
Just some random thoughts

It's not that Jack has the best network. If you're very persuasive/dominant/etc you can get Johansen to confess that he was tipped off about the coffin. You also learn that the occupant was king for 250 years. Could have been a vampire, maybe even a ancient one. Or maybe just a ghoul?
In Bach's journals you find out that this particular coffin was discovered earlier, a long time ago, maybe Jack or his friend knew about the coffin and tipped Johansen and thus they knew the coffin would be headed their way, eventually.

Gotta love how everyone started talking about Jack even though this thread was about Nines

Well, he's your first mentor, he's mysterious and he signals Nines to let go of your Sire but stand up for you. They're all scheming and Jack's scheming them all.

[d3athstroke]

My opinion about this following
Ming Xiao implies that your sire was working for LaCroix and got betrayed. I think LaCroix needed apolitical fledgling who he could manipulate into pointing finger at Nines after Grouts murder. And he knew that Nines would freak out during execution (Anarchs are very predictable) he probably set up Sabbath accident too in a way where Nines would see it and interfere and then if you refuse to rat on him he uses dominate on you to announce bloodhunt on Nines.

[MonkeyMummyMoney]

The only thing you need to know about Jack is he dislikes the Camarilla and doesn't hold the sabbat to much of a standard and that he's one of the few vampires still alive that meet Cain.

Jack also isn't much of a plans guy. None of what happens in game is his plan, It's all Cain's presumably Jack's just the muscle. If Cain himself tried to do anything it's more likely that he'd be caught by someone.

Now, what would Cain (Or Jack for that matter.) get from setting up a childer not even a week old up to die? Nothing. If Cain wanted you dead he could of killed you in the Taxi and Jack could of snapped your neck the moment you were set free.

The Sheriff would of gained literally nothing from killing you. Lacroix would of never sent him after you, after all you just did a very good thing for him and a very bad thing for the Sabbat.

Nines... It's possible he set you up just to save you and make him look good. It is a bit odd that he just happened to be there alone.

But, I think the most likely outcome was that, like I said earlier, You're just a childer, barely in control of his basic abilities and you just blew up a major Sabbat operation in Santa Monica. You probably left something behind that the Sabbat were able to trace.

How Nines just happened to be there to save you? I think it's just bad writing, nothing more, nothing less. I would of had a random group of Anarchs save you and then bring you to nines, but O'well.

[Second Batch]

Jack is becoming the illuminati. Can't explain it? Must be Jack.

[Wesp5]

Originally posted by Fantastic Plastic:

How Nines just happened to be there to save you? I think it's just bad writing, nothing more, nothing less.

I can imagine that Nines is well aware of the position he moved you into at the court, so he kept an eye on you to check that LaCroix kept his promise and not has you killed somehow anyway...

[Deranged Duck]

Necroed my dead thread huh? :D well it's to be expected around vampires I guess,

And personally I think that Jack saw how much of a problem Laxcroix was before anyone else did, You don't get into a partnership with Minx Xiao so easily without some negotiations and backroom dealings beforehand,

And a vampire who'd sell his own kind out for more power in such a fashion is a dangerously stupid vampire that needs to go, Anarch or Cam, it doesn't matter, it threatens all, Sides, Jack only has Anarch leanings, He's an independent individual in the truest sense of the word.

[BanDHMO]

I thought it was either really bad writing or Nines' little setup show. Two things stood out.

First, obviously, it's far too much of a coincidence for someone of Nines' caliber to just randomly run into you. Even if he was checking up on you periodically, the odds of him being there exactly as the attack was unfolding are tiny. So he at least knew of the attack in advance and purposely didn't stop it or warn you ahead of time so he can look like a hero, or perhaps he set up the attack. Or it's all one hell of a lucky break for you.

Second, he used the threat of a hand grenade to scare off the attackers, but that seems not very scary to a vampire. HGs aren't magic and there's no massive fireball, it's just a percussive wave from a relatively small explosion, and a number of fragments flying at high speed acting as bullets. It's the fragments that are mostly responsible for dealing the damage. Not to mention, those things have a few seconds fuse. By the time it goes off, the Sabbat vampires would be all over Nines and ripping into him. Even if they did get hit, why would a pack of Gangrel be scared of what's equivalent to a bunch of bullets? I'd buy it if they were just afraid of Nines because he's obviously older and stronger, but they act like they could easily take him until they see his grenade, then run away.

Feels scripted. Poorly. Whether by the writers or by Nines, is the question. But since the world and characters in this game are easily the deepest, most through-out ones in any game I've ever played, I'm leaning towards the writers knew exactly what they were doing and Nines was just trying to pull a fast one on a dumb little fledgeling and make himself and his group look like the good guys so you'd be easy to manipulate into making the decisions he wants.

[Deranged Duck]

Originally posted by BanDHMO:

I thought it was either really bad writing or Nines' little setup show. Two things stood out.

First, obviously, it's far too much of a coincidence for someone of Nines' caliber to just randomly run into you. Even if he was checking up on you periodically, the odds of him being there exactly as the attack was unfolding are tiny. So he at least knew of the attack in advance and purposely didn't stop it or warn you ahead of time so he can look like a hero, or perhaps he set up the attack. Or it's all one hell of a lucky break for you.

Second, he used the threat of a hand grenade to scare off the attackers, but that seems not very scary to a vampire. HGs aren't magic and there's no massive fireball, it's just a percussive wave from a relatively small explosion, and a number of fragments flying at high speed acting as bullets. It's the fragments that are mostly responsible for dealing the damage. Not to mention, those things have a few seconds fuse. By the time it goes off, the Sabbat vampires would be all over Nines and ripping into him. Even if they did get hit, why would a pack of Gangrel be scared of what's equivalent to a bunch of bullets? I'd buy it if they were just afraid of Nines because he's obviously older and stronger, but they act like they could easily take him until they see his grenade, then run away.

Feels scripted. Poorly. Whether by the writers or by Nines, is the question. But since the world and characters in this game are easily the deepest, most through-out ones in any game I've ever played, I'm leaning towards the writers knew exactly what they were doing and Nines was just trying to pull a fast one on a dumb little fledgeling and make himself and his group look like the good guys so you'd be easy to manipulate into making the decisions he wants.

I think that the timing was either really lucky, or really opportunistic, But that being said....We're talking about Sabbat Shovelheads here, At best they're gangbangers turned into expendable cannon fodder for the local Tzimisce Sabbat leader to use, All they know about vampires probably comes from tv, movies and video games, so no way in hell do they really know for sure they'd survive a grenade to the face.

[Wesp5]

Originally posted by BanDHMO:

I'm leaning towards the writers knew exactly what they were doing and Nines was just trying to pull a fast one on a dumb little fledgeling and make himself and his group look like the good guys so you'd be easy to manipulate into making the decisions he wants.

I disagree, Nines never gives the impression that he really cares about the player. How would he get some Sabbat to work for him in the first place? I would rather assume that Jack kept an eye on you because you are his tool. And he gave Nines the tip when he noticed the ambush...