is the brotherhood of the ninth circle part of the Sabbat?

[Bring the Beans]

Seeing as how Vick is known as "bishop" and that is a Sabbat title similar to "baron". Does he use that title just because the brotherhood is like a church? Or are they a Sabbat pack?

[Touch of Oblivion]

I've always viewed them as basically just a crazy vampire cult. It's quite likely Vick may have been a Sabbat shovelhead at some point, but the Sabbat want to rule humanity not destroy it. Vick and his plaguebearers were nothing but a blight that neither the Camarilla or Sabbat would've tolerated, just for completely different reasons.

[Bring the Beans]

Originally posted by TouchOfOblivion:

I've always viewed them as basically just a crazy vampire cult. It's quite likely Vick may have been a Sabbat shovelhead at some point, but the Sabbat want to rule humanity not destroy it. Vick and his plaguebearers were nothing but a blight that neither the Camarilla or Sabbat would've tolerated, just for completely different reasons.

Vick, maybe. Jezebel also talks about diablerie like she's done it and want to do it again, so she might have been Sabbat.

On a little different note, why does Kanker and Vick act like they are sick? They both cough and talk really slurred, but vampires can't get sick.

[Touch of Oblivion]

Originally posted by Wafflemeister:

Originally posted by TouchOfOblivion:

I've always viewed them as basically just a crazy vampire cult. It's quite likely Vick may have been a Sabbat shovelhead at some point, but the Sabbat want to rule humanity not destroy it. Vick and his plaguebearers were nothing but a blight that neither the Camarilla or Sabbat would've tolerated, just for completely different reasons.

Vick, maybe. Jezebel also talks about diablerie like she's done it and want to do it again, so she might have been Sabbat.

On a little different note, why does Kanker and Vick act like they are sick? They both cough and talk really slurred, but vampires can't get sick.

Vampires can't die from disease, but they can become infected. Their vampiric blood actually empowers the disease and makes it into a super illness, hence why Vick and friends spread their plague. They're essentially carriers of the disease, but they'll never get better as they have no immune system response but it'll never kill them either.

[Bring the Beans]

Originally posted by TouchOfOblivion:

Originally posted by Wafflemeister:

Vick, maybe. Jezebel also talks about diablerie like she's done it and want to do it again, so she might have been Sabbat.

On a little different note, why does Kanker and Vick act like they are sick? They both cough and talk really slurred, but vampires can't get sick.

Vampires can't die from disease, but they can become infected. Their vampiric blood actually empowers the disease and makes it into a super illness, hence why Vick and friends spread their plague. They're essentially carriers of the disease, but they'll never get better as they have no immune system response but it'll never kill them either.

Oh, thank you! Then why did Damsel say "I know what you're thinking, vampires can't get sick, but kine can!" when giving you the quest?

[Wesp5]

Originally posted by Wafflemeister:

On a little different note, why does Kanker and Vick act like they are sick?

It's not completely clear, but it seems their plague does indeed affect vampires, at least ghouls can be killed by it. So they might show symptoms on their own, even if they are not deadly. Also I think it's too much of a coincidence, that Vick is called Bishop. Maybe this is some kind of renegade or gone crazy Sabbat coven...

[Bring the Beans]

Originally posted by wesp5:

Originally posted by Wafflemeister:

On a little different note, why does Kanker and Vick act like they are sick?

It's not completely clear to me, but it seems their plague does indeed affect vampires, at least ghouls can be killed by it. So they might show symptoms on their own, even if they are not deadly. Also I think it's too much of a coincidence, that Vick is called Bishop. Maybe this is some kind of renegade or gone crazy Sabbat coven...

As far as I understand, bishop is a title given to the biggest bad in an area, similar to baron. Wouldn't Andrei be the bishop then?

[Jack Deth]

I'd venture to say that they were not Sabbat. Yes Bishop is a title and Andrei would more than likely fit that bill better. More likely he adopted it because of the whole church deal he has goin on.

Furthermore, the Sabbat are monsters but the spreading of disease like that isn't necessairly one they would endorse.

Though vampires can't get sick (outside of a supernatural illness) they can in some cases display symptoms and if the disease is bad enough just by altering the vamps surroundings it could very well drive them insane.

Intake of lupine blood for example could make a vampire frenzy easier (but the blood is also more potent). Though this rule may have changed in an edition I'm not aware of.

[Bring the Beans]

Originally posted by Roland Kincaid:

I'd venture to say that they were not Sabbat. Yes Bishop is a title and Andrei would more than likely fit that bill better. More likely he adopted it because of the whole church deal he has goin on.

i thought of that too but then i immediately realized that andrei's primary haven and hunting ground was hollywood before the player confronts him and forces him out. so andrei could have been the bishop of hollywood, while vick was the bishop downtown?

[Wesp5]

Or Andrei could have been the Archbishop of the whole of LA, just residing in Hollywood.

[Touch of Oblivion]

A Bishop or, Prince using the Camarilla title, wouldn't be ruler of a single area of a city like LA. If one is Bishop or Prince of LA, you control the whole city or at the very least your faction is the dominant one.

@Wafflemeister in regards to what Damsel says, that's likely just a dialogue quirk. The thing is with vampires who're plague carriers is that they have a high chance to infect anyone they feed off of. Even with something like a common cold, if it's suped up by vampire blood it could kill you. Plus I believe Vick and friends are infected by more than one disease since to them the sickness is a good thing. They'd want to contract multiple illnesses so they had something extremely virulent to "enlighten" their cult members and victims with.

[Anderson]

Also, did something change with the plus patch for them? Kind of an obscure set of areas in the whole game.

[Wesp5]

Originally posted by Anderson:

Also, did something change with the plus patch for them?

No, I don't think I changed anything about the circle except for fixing bugs...

[Anderson]

Originally posted by wesp5:

Originally posted by Anderson:

Also, did something change with the plus patch for them?

No, I don't think I changed anything about the circle except for fixing bugs...

Thanks for the answer.
In that case I suppose it's only bare bones what it had, so it remained!

[spectre_of_woe]

In the plus patch, there's a note that a spy working for Beckett followed a sabbat vampire to the brotherhood's headquarters, implying that there is some connection between them.

[Bloodartist]

Originally posted by Wafflemeister:

As far as I understand, bishop is a title given to the biggest bad in an area, similar to baron. Wouldn't Andrei be the bishop then?

Bishop is indeed the Sabbat equivalent of the Camarilla title Primogen. Its possible that Vick at least was member of sabbat at some point. I never really considered the cult to be sabbat though, since their modus operandi doesn't fit it.