Vampire rank, ghouls, thinbloods, question.

[Dogtor]

What exactly are the ranks that differentiate vampires?
And ghouls for that matter.
I know in the game you are reffered to as the fledgling.
This is the first stage of a vampire, correct?
And the next one I think is Neonate.

Can someone elaborate please? And any more information about thin-bloods would also be greatly appreciated.

I also have another question regarding ghouls.
I don't know whether I mixed things up but it seems that Heather is able to walk in the sun. Is this because she's a ghoul? Do ghouls have the ability to walk in the sunlight?

Also another question regarding the role-play aspect rather than gameplay. How likely would a vampire survive from a gunshot to the head (pistol)?

[Tarjei Amadeus]

A fledgling is a vampire who haven't yet proved himself worthy of the embrace. Neonate is somewhat the akward teens of the vampire.

Ghouls are mortals gaining traits from their vampire masters by consuming their blood. They are not undead, but their aging process almost freeze until they don't have any vampire blood left in their system.

A vampire would very likely survive a handgun shot to the head. It's not like they use the brain for anything, as they are undead.

[Nexwolf | Shahr]

WARNING wall of text inc....

COPIED FROM: http://cainitebrood.proboards.com/thread/55/vampire-ages-ranks


Post by Andrei on Jun 14, 2007 15:57:33 GMT
Fledgeling: A vampire who hasn't been a vampire for very long. Anything from a second old to a hundred, so long as the vampire in question is still considered incompetent enough in the Kindred community that his or her sire is still in total control of his or her life. Essentially, a fledgeling is any vampire who is still considered the sire's responsibility by the prince and other "legal" officials.

Neonate: A neonate is a vampire who has not been independent for very long. In America, this generally means a vampire who is somewhere between 25 and 100 years old (has spent this much time as a vampire). The vampire in question is still inexperienced and generally lives on the sufference of the rest of the local Kindred, but is considered responsible for his or her own actions, with no reprecussions or rewards for his or her behavior to his or her sire, except as regards reputation.

Ancillus (f. ancilla, pl. ancillae): Ancillae are vampires who have been around long enough to be viable members of the Cainite community, but who are not yet true power-players. American ancillae tend to be anywhere from fifty to a hundred fifty years old; in Europe, where most of the eldest vampires reside, you probably won't be considered such until 200-250 years have passed. More traditional vampires might still view most of the major Los Angeles powers (Isaac Abrahms, the "Tourette" Voerman, Gary, possibly Maximillian Strauss) as neonates, and others (Prince LaCroix, possibly Maximillian Strauss) as ancillae. In America, however, and especially on the West Coast, they are thought of as ancillae-bordering-on-elders and elders.

Elder: These are the guys in charge. In most cities you'll find an elder as Prince, and much of the Jihad seems to be run by elders. In America, 200 is a pretty secure elder; in Europe, you'll be laughed at by the other elders until you reach 300-500ish. Hardestat the Elder is an elder; Lucita and Fatima are young elders.

Methuselah: The eldest of the eldest. Methuselahs are the true masters of the jihad, with mystical powers even the elders do not understand; some have even plotted and carried out the destruction of Antediluvians from torpor (most notably, this is how Augustus Giovanni got the idea and plan). Methuselahs are unarguably a millennium or more old, and many are in a torpor similar to that of the majority of Antediluvians. Those awake, such as Mithras (childe of the Ventrue Antediluvian, and Prince of London) and Cardinal Moncada (once a member of the Manus Nigrum, and one of the Sabbat's foremost members until he was assassinated by his own childe and three Assamites, collectively four of the best assassins in the world, and all of whom nearly died in the attempt) are the most powerful vampires you may ever hope never to meet.

Antediluvians: This is the only relatively strict definition. Antediluvians are members of the third generation, either childer of Caine's childer or their diablerists. Unlike other distinctions, this ranking is not dependent on age: Augustus Giovanni was an Antediluvian as soon as he finished diablerizing Ashur, even though he was not yet a century old. Antediluvians don't have to spend millennia mastering their powers to be a force to be reckoned with (though the fact that both Ashur and Saulot managed to recover from their diablerie in a way shows that it certainly helps, especially when dealing with other Antes). Antediluvians are almost literally forces of nature with powers that seem godlike even to the most powerful of Methuselahs. For example, in game mechanics, level 10 Vicissitude (level 10 of any discipline is reserved for Antediluvians) is essentially the ability to reform one's body no matter how destroyed it may have been, even if it was tossed into the center of the sun.

The Eldest: This one isn't universally recognized, as not all vampires believe that all are descended from a single vampire. Still, canon states that a male human became a vampire without being embraced, thus beginning the lineage. He is known in modernity as Caine, and he has powers that could probably rip the very Earth apart if he truly felt like it (certainly enough to curse the Antediluvians and their entire lineages, in spite of the power and numbers they possess), but he seems to prefer being left alone to suffer his curse in peace. The Gehenna scenario essentially starts with another eternal being who has been holding a grudge for his dumping her for about six millennia, seeking him out and starting a fight.

[Scraps]

Ghouls can be described as the "inbetween": they're not quite mortal, but by no means a vampire.

They specifically do drink the blood from a vampire and are temporarily undead, and may have the same discipline as the vampire providing them blood (Think of it like being Embraced without the commitment). They also share similar positives and negatives: they don't age, superhuman recovery, can frenzy, more prone to dieing via lethal force, etc. Although I havent found direct information for your question on Sunlight, I would make the fair assumption on that it depends how much blood a ghoul has consumed. Heather likely gets the appropriate dosages where sunlight may bother her, but it wouldn't harm her physically.

If a ghoul has no more vampiric blood, they'll revert back to being human, which can be done via waiting roughly 1 month, or using vampire disciplines.

The vampire clans specifically utilize ghouls to accomodate their own desires. Canon, the Tzimisce often used them as body guards, and turned ghouls into Revenants (Ghouls capable of producing blood, and therefore, permanent ghouls), Nosferatu tend to utilize animal ghouls, and the Ventrue are known to use several ghouls, as well. Speculation on my end, but a Tremere may use a ghoul to moderate their overall behaviour and performance with disciplines, and may fully Embrace them later due to their stupidly difficult initiation process.

On the topic of Thin-Bloods, they're so far away of Caine's lineage that their powers are notably weaker, and their drawbacks are as well (They can still have control over some disciplines, whilst being able to be unharmed by dim sunlight, for example). It's simply difficult to classify them as a "vampire". A primary reason why an Antediluvian is -so- powerful is because their bloodline is so close to Caine's (3rd generation). In vast contrast, the Thin Bloods are specifically 15 Gen vampires (with some being from 14).

[Dogtor]

Originally posted by Tarjei Amadeus:

A fledgling is a vampire who haven't yet proved himself worthy of the embrace. Neonate is somewhat the akward teens of the vampire.

Ghouls are mortals gaining traits from their vampire masters by consuming their blood. They are not undead, but their aging process almost freeze until they don't have any vampire blood left in their system.

A vampire would very likely survive a handgun shot to the head. It's not like they use the brain for anything, as they are undead.

Thanks. That's interesting regarding the ghoul part. May have to read up on it more.

[Dogtor]

Originally posted by Sassy:

Ghouls can be described as the "inbetween": they're not quite mortal, but by no means a vampire.

They specifically do drink the blood from a vampire and are temporarily undead, and may have the same discipline as the vampire providing them blood (Think of it like being Embraced without the commitment). They also share similar positives and negatives: they don't age, superhuman recovery, can frenzy, more prone to dieing via lethal force, etc. Although I havent found direct information for your question on Sunlight, I would make the fair assumption on that it depends how much blood a ghoul has consumed. Heather likely gets the appropriate dosages where sunlight may bother her, but it wouldn't harm her physically.

If a ghoul has no more vampiric blood, they'll revert back to being human, which can be done via waiting roughly 1 month, or using vampire disciplines.

The vampire clans specifically utilize ghouls to accomodate their own desires. Canon, the Tzimisce often used them as body guards, and turned ghouls into Revenants (Ghouls capable of producing blood, and therefore, permanent ghouls), Nosferatu tend to utilize animal ghouls, and the Ventrue are known to use several ghouls, as well. Speculation on my end, but a Tremere may use a ghoul to moderate their overall behaviour and performance with disciplines, and may fully Embrace them later due to their stupidly difficult initiation process.

On the topic of Thin-Bloods, they're so far away of Caine's lineage that their powers are notably weaker, and their drawbacks are as well (They can still have control over some disciplines, whilst being able to be unharmed by dim sunlight, for example). It's simply difficult to classify them as a "vampire". A primary reason why an Antedullivan is -so- powerful is because their bloodline is so close to Caine's (3rd generation). In vast contrast, the Thin Bloods are specifically 15 Gen vampires (with some being from 14).

Very informative, thank you!

[Dogtor]

Originally posted by The RealWorld // Nexwolf:

WARNING wall of text inc....

COPIED FROM: http://cainitebrood.proboards.com/thread/55/vampire-ages-ranks


Post by Andrei on Jun 14, 2007 15:57:33 GMT
Fledgeling: A vampire who hasn't been a vampire for very long. Anything from a second old to a hundred, so long as the vampire in question is still considered incompetent enough in the Kindred community that his or her sire is still in total control of his or her life. Essentially, a fledgeling is any vampire who is still considered the sire's responsibility by the prince and other "legal" officials.

Neonate: A neonate is a vampire who has not been independent for very long. In America, this generally means a vampire who is somewhere between 25 and 100 years old (has spent this much time as a vampire). The vampire in question is still inexperienced and generally lives on the sufference of the rest of the local Kindred, but is considered responsible for his or her own actions, with no reprecussions or rewards for his or her behavior to his or her sire, except as regards reputation.

Ancillus (f. ancilla, pl. ancillae): Ancillae are vampires who have been around long enough to be viable members of the Cainite community, but who are not yet true power-players. American ancillae tend to be anywhere from fifty to a hundred fifty years old; in Europe, where most of the eldest vampires reside, you probably won't be considered such until 200-250 years have passed. More traditional vampires might still view most of the major Los Angeles powers (Isaac Abrahms, the "Tourette" Voerman, Gary, possibly Maximillian Strauss) as neonates, and others (Prince LaCroix, possibly Maximillian Strauss) as ancillae. In America, however, and especially on the West Coast, they are thought of as ancillae-bordering-on-elders and elders.

Elder: These are the guys in charge. In most cities you'll find an elder as Prince, and much of the Jihad seems to be run by elders. In America, 200 is a pretty secure elder; in Europe, you'll be laughed at by the other elders until you reach 300-500ish. Hardestat the Elder is an elder; Lucita and Fatima are young elders.

Methuselah: The eldest of the eldest. Methuselahs are the true masters of the jihad, with mystical powers even the elders do not understand; some have even plotted and carried out the destruction of Antediluvians from torpor (most notably, this is how Augustus Giovanni got the idea and plan). Methuselahs are unarguably a millennium or more old, and many are in a torpor similar to that of the majority of Antediluvians. Those awake, such as Mithras (childe of the Ventrue Antediluvian, and Prince of London) and Cardinal Moncada (once a member of the Manus Nigrum, and one of the Sabbat's foremost members until he was assassinated by his own childe and three Assamites, collectively four of the best assassins in the world, and all of whom nearly died in the attempt) are the most powerful vampires you may ever hope never to meet.

Antediluvians: This is the only relatively strict definition. Antediluvians are members of the third generation, either childer of Caine's childer or their diablerists. Unlike other distinctions, this ranking is not dependent on age: Augustus Giovanni was an Antediluvian as soon as he finished diablerizing Ashur, even though he was not yet a century old. Antediluvians don't have to spend millennia mastering their powers to be a force to be reckoned with (though the fact that both Ashur and Saulot managed to recover from their diablerie in a way shows that it certainly helps, especially when dealing with other Antes). Antediluvians are almost literally forces of nature with powers that seem godlike even to the most powerful of Methuselahs. For example, in game mechanics, level 10 Vicissitude (level 10 of any discipline is reserved for Antediluvians) is essentially the ability to reform one's body no matter how destroyed it may have been, even if it was tossed into the center of the sun.

The Eldest: This one isn't universally recognized, as not all vampires believe that all are descended from a single vampire. Still, canon states that a male human became a vampire without being embraced, thus beginning the lineage. He is known in modernity as Caine, and he has powers that could probably rip the very Earth apart if he truly felt like it (certainly enough to curse the Antediluvians and their entire lineages, in spite of the power and numbers they possess), but he seems to prefer being left alone to suffer his curse in peace. The Gehenna scenario essentially starts with another eternal being who has been holding a grudge for his dumping her for about six millennia, seeking him out and starting a fight.

Just what I was looking for regarding this subject. Thanks!

[d3athstroke]

Vampire rank depends on his generation.
Same goes with ghouls there have been exremely old ghouls who vere more powerful than some Vampires and had Vampire auras around them instead of Human ones.
Thin blood is is watered down generation of vampires. Vampires get weaker with each generation.

[Jack Deth]

Ghouls can bounce around in the sun. It's pretty much the only reason ghouls became a thing in the first place.

Ghouls can live for quite a long time...but if their blood supply gets cut off, expct their actual age to catch up to them rather quickly (some most likely would shrivel and turn to dust if old enough). The blood keeps them young in a stasis of sorts.

Nexwolf hit it on the head with the ranks. Essentially "rank" (in game mechanic terms generation) is how far removed you are from the original source of the blood essentially. Hence, the older the vampire the earlier in a founders life (or unlife) they wre embraced so that older vampires tend to be more powerful due to not just a stronger connection but more time with the blood.

Of course you can cheat the system and diablerize your way to the top, eer bottom of the feeding pool.

As for a gunshot to the head, mechanically in game it's more likely they'll survive than not. In setting though unless the vampire is of an lower generation, they aren't that much more likely to survive it over a human.

Thing about vampires is, even the toughest Brujah or wildest Gangrel, is that their strength lies in not getting hit. Using proxies, using disciplines to avoid actually getting hit in the first place. They aren't inherently much tougher at all, hence the avoidance to getting knocked around.

Healing requires blood. Massive damage requires a lot of blood which increases risks to their survival. A shotgun blast to the head is more than enough to make a leech's existence very short the problem is getting into that position.

If you want something in setting that is insanely difficult to kill. Meaning a shotgun blast to the head will do some damage but more likely piss them off, you need to look at most of the changing breeds (werewolves, weresharks, werebears etc...). Even if pump a werewolf full of silver they have a chance of coming back (due to their whole rage deal).

Think "Monster Squad" with the wolfman scene where they use dynamite on him. Which is why many vampires see werewolves as boogeymen.