Best equips for a Niefel Jarl?

[fogandsteel]

What would be the best non-unique items for a Niefel Jarl (Niefelheim, EA) if cost of the items is not an issue?

Currently I use the following:

1. Sword of Swiftness
2. Charcoal Shield
3. Horned Helmet
4. Armor of Souls
5. Boots of the Messenger
6. Burnung Pearl
7. Ring of the Warrior

I script them to cast "Quicken self," and am concerned that Sword of Swiftness might be an overkill on top of "Quicken self." From the Bless, I already have Regeneration 10%, Reinvigoration 3, Attack +2, Defence +2.

Please recommend what you found to be most effective in your games.

[mel]

Against AI, I assume? I would take:
Frost/Fire Brand
Vine Shield or Shield of Gleaming Gold
Horror Helmet, although Spirit Helmet might be cool
Stymphalian Wings
Not sure about boots. Maybe boots of Stone?
Lifelong Protection

For the last misc. slot, there is lots of stuff that'd be cool. You could get him a wound fend amulet to prolong his effectivness, since he's going to get afflictions sooner or later if you use him as a melee combatant.
Maybe give him Copper Arm and then another shield if you want to be funky. Water bottle is always good.Or increase his magic resistance or any other stat that you find lacking.

If you get a Air 1 Jarl you should def. give him a Bag of Winds and have him cast Mistform.

EDIT: I'd like to point out that this is not recommended in any serious game. This is just what I would do for making badass dudes that smack up AI in singleplayer. Units like Niefel Jarls are way too valuable to risk in melee. You'd give them maybe a path booster or two and have them cast spells while protected by troops.

[Hieron]

A little bit of explanations for the statements of previous poster.

Originally posted by fognsteel:

1. Sword of Swiftness
3. Horned Helmet

Against AI you are usually facing lots of chaff, so it's more slot-effective to get a Brand wit AoE attack, then get more normal attacks. Your variant is more universal - it's better if you are going to fight something really big and strong OR something with elemental protection against your Brand. But does it worth a head slot?

Originally posted by fognsteel:

2. Charcoal Shield

I usually use this kind of shield in one situation - against hordes of mindless units with little HP, like undead. Against anything else Vine Shield or Shield of Gleaming Gold (the latter - in combination with Horror Helmet) gives your SC an additional layer of protection, and nothing is more valueble for SC then protection.

Originally posted by fognsteel:

6. Burnung Pearl
7. Ring of the Warrior

Do you really need that big Attack? Again - it is good against dangerous foes like other SCs, but not against chaff. Usually there are better options if you are fighting AI.

Originally posted by fognsteel:

4. Armor of Souls

Not bad, but I would recommend the combination of Bone Armor (a bit tricky to get, cause it's D5) and Iron Face (pricy, but great for just that purpose) IF you CAN forge them. Add an Amulet of Antimagic to compensate the net loss of MR.

[dyslexicfaser]

For a Jarl who has an AOE ability already (that cold aura) it's not as necessary as it usually is to put a brand on your thug, Sword of Quickness works fine. But the Vine Shield or Shield of Gleaming Gold are still practically a requirement.

Jarls are awesome enough that you could probably try an oddball equipment suite though, they're fairly idiot-proof. Something weird like double shields, reinvigoration gear and Boots of the Behemoth/Stymphalian Wings for trample.

[fogandsteel]

Thank you for suggestions. (I didn't have a chance to test all of them yet.) I like Frost Brand a lot: it's cheap and effective. Not sure about Stymphalian Wings—if my Jarl has ~25-30 Attack, why do I need Trampling, which also comes with ridiculous -4 Defence and 3 Encumbrance? Also I don't send my Jarls on solo missions. I send them in groups of about 5 or 6 (unless the opponent's army has more than 100 units) arranged in a line. This ensures that they do not get mobbed too much.

[mel]

You don't need it, but it's fun.

[fogandsteel]

After trying Vine Shield, I think that it is the best possible shield to have for a melee SC. Does anybody think there are better options?

[zest]

Originally posted by fognsteel:

After trying Vine Shield, I think that it is the best possible shield to have for a melee SC. Does anybody think there are better options?

Vine shields are the unquestioned king of Thug equiptment(except for fear thugs who prefer fleaming gold) because it is so cost effective for what it does and excels most at making the mooks you see in provincial defenses(maint higns thugs fight while raiding) non-issues. But I don't think I'd call it optimal for SCs where cost efficiency is a bit less of a holy grail.


Gleaming gold is often better if you actually have fear on the SC(fear in addition to causing a route reduces the morale of nearby enemies every single turn cumulatively, making them progressively less likely to actually get to attack through awe as time passes).


Barrier(which is an artifact) Is extremely solid if you're just trying to make a very hard to kill SC(boosting all resistances & whatnot), but it requires you to put an artifact on something you plan to send into melee which is generally never a great idea against real players(you can get away with it vs AI).


That said, against real players there is no true "best item" for an SC in all situations. It's all about choosing the item that best counters what your opponent is fielding. If they are fielding a ton of STR 25+ units vine shield does nothing besides be a shield- if they field morale 50 undead & constructs shield of gleaming gold brings nothing to the table. Scutata Vulturnis could be an appealing pick if you know you opponent's main threat is a bunch of air mages and every lightning resist counter.


In fact for a SC, the shield I would say comes closest to "best overall" is actually the humble Lead shield. The importance of MR on SCs cannot be understated being that like 90% of the strongest anti-SC spells are tested against MR and due to exploding dice a S2 Mage with no penentration can still roll a 28 on that penetration roll to instakill your SC.



Then again, not sure why I wrote all this about SC itemization: Jarls aren't really SCs- they more fit into that weird little gray area between thugs and SCs where which category they fit is more determined by what stage of the game you're in and how many gems you'rew willing to spend on them then their actual stats. Early and mid game the best option is absolutely to treat them as thugs, give them a brand and a vine shield and nothing else. Super late game if you fully deck them out they become pseudo SCs and what I wrote before this paragraph is actually applicable.

[RadicalTurnip]

Best without concern to gems? Well, that's an interesting topic. My top pic would certainly be The Aegis. Petrify is just too good, and the additional fear is a nice bonus. Most of my Dominions knowledge comes from 3, so correct me if something has been seriously changed, but after that, your top priority should probably be MR if we're going all out otherwise, so probably Amon Hotep which gives MR+5!!! and a nice Awe (that works well with your fear), and invulnerability, which is always fun. To make up for some of that encumbrance, plus whatever encumbrance-increasing things the enemy throws at you, I'd probably go with Boots of Caleus the Druid (Reinv +10). For a weapon my personal favorite is the "lowly" blood thorn to give you more life gain and quasi-reinvigoration (your Aegis can do most of the killing for you). Then for armor it's a hard choice. I would probably say either Robe of the Shadows for etherealness, or robe of calius the druid for more resistances and another +3 MR, or there's a slight chance of Aseftik's Armor, but I would have to playtest it. It offers a lot of good (anther +3 MR and crazy protection), but the encumbrance could be an issue again. Or Bone armor, which would probably change your need for the blood thorn. I would take Mage Bane. I want to go with Aseftik's, so I'll say Krupp's bracers for a misc slot. The last misc slot you can do something fun, and I would go with The Ark because it's cool, but you'd never do wrong with an antimagic amulet, a bottle of life, a lifelong protection, or something like that.

So, my picks are (in order of best to worst):
The Aegis
Amon Hotep
Boots of Calius the Druid
Krupp's Bracers
Aseftik's Armor
The Ark
Blood Thorn

Or, another build that I realized after reviewing a few things might be better:
The Aegis
Amon Hotep
Mage Bane
Bone Armor
Boots of Calius the Druid
The Ark
Elixer of Life

[fogandsteel]

RadicalTurnip, I meant non-unique items as I have 20-40 SCs and cannot give every one of them unique items. But yeah, for a couple SCs, unique items make very nice equipment.

Another thing is never give super strong items like Aegis or Summit to a SC lest he be charmed by an enemy. I once had a Queen of Elemental Water with Aegis (and other best items) charmed by an AI; I just quit the game right after. Only give them to your Pretender or the Prophet who are immune to Charm and Enslave.

[RadicalTurnip]

Yeah, I mostly knew you were talking about non-artifact items, but it was a thought experiment I wanted to try out. Sorry. Yeah, equipment like that is scary to put on anything. Even if they don't charm it, if they do somehow manage to kill it, they could pick The Aegis up.

[fogandsteel]

If you have a strong Pretender, I think it is fairly safe to give him the Aegis as long as you don't send him alone against 50 enemy mages.