The bane of Niefel giants ?

[Oor-tael]

Hello everyone !
So I know quite well what I have come to call the "Dominions syndrome" : you observe something unexplainable during a battle replay, you curse out loud, calling it a bug, but then after a long brainstorming or someone explaining it to you, it all makes sense.
And so before falling in this trap again, I'll share my latest "nonsense" with you all, to have your thoughts on it.
Here it is :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ARnecdyOhg

So as you can see, uber classic regenerative Niefel giants just don't fear anything in the early game, even all the flaming arrows you can fire at them. They tank it all, they endure...
... Except in the end of this battle, where the laughing Pantokrator decided that their blessing would cease for some mysterious reason, but ther lingering immolate effect would go on and on, and ultimately kill them.

Why ? Is it working as intended ? Do all the blessings always disappear during the "bonus" turns generated to resolve the lingering effects ? (poison, bleed, immolate, decay...)
Because if so, then setting the Niefel giants on fire is the best way to condemn them to death, and this can be very cost effective. A real Niefel giants bane...

[Morsigil]

This is working as intended. A unit has a 25% chance each turn to put themselves out if they're on fire in neutral scales, with 5x their fire resistance added to that chance. In the case of a Niefel giant, that's -5, meaning -5 x 5 = -25, or 0% chance. Once ignited in neutral or warmer scales, they will burn forever. Meanwhile, the regenerative bless shuts off at some point, presumably to avoid a situation where Niefel giants burn indefinitely while regenerating all lost HP.

Rain or cold 1 or greater (up to cold 3 obviously) will give them a chance to put out the fire.

[Ponypony]

I don't think that is working as intended. Blesses do not shut off at any point, after battle or otherwise. No unit burns forever.

You can not "unbless" a unit

[Ica]

Originally posted by trademark2:

I don't think that is working as intended. Blesses do not shut off at any point, after battle or otherwise. No unit burns forever.

You can not "unbless" a unit

It's working as intended. Like Morsigil said, a burning Niefel Giant in neutral or warm temperature scales never stops burning. Burning beats regeneration. The bless regeneration probably shuts down after some number of rounds (once the actual battle is long over already) so that the battle wouldn't continue forever.

[Shinuyama]

I'd hesitate to say 'as intended' for something as janky as that looks.

[Ponypony]

Well, I guess you would have to ask the devs for 100% answer. Im very skeptical that units can be unblessed, never heard of that or seen it. but in the battle replay, check if its still blessed or not.

[Ica]

Originally posted by trademark2:

Well, I guess you would have to ask the devs for 100% answer. Im very skeptical that units can be unblessed, never heard of that or seen it. but in the battle replay, check if its still blessed or not.

What's the alternative though? And I'm not saying that the bless goes away, just that the regeneration stops.

But yeah, by "it's intended" I don't mean that it was something that was planned in advance, but just that it's unlikely to be a bug.

[Oor-tael]

Originally posted by trademark2:

Im very skeptical that units can be unblessed, never heard of that or seen it. but in the battle replay, check if its still blessed or not.

I have checked, and I confirm that THEY ARE UNBLESSED at the moment where the regeneration stops.
Why ? How is this possible ? This is the question of "working as intended or not", and not the lingering immolate effect which is very understandable.

[Lucid]

That is very odd looking to me. Is the fire + poison doing more / turn than regen?

More often when I see the rapid end of the battle - its regen vs poison or something like that and regen normally wins..

[Oor-tael]

Originally posted by Lucid:

Is the fire + poison doing more / turn than regen?

No if you look closely, the regen STOPS and only the fire continues to deal damage.
The more I think about it, the more I want to report it as a bug in the bug thread.
Why would the blessing ever stop during a battle phase ?

[Morsigil]

Clearly the correct way to deal with this situation is to spawn a bunch of human soldiers at the end of the battle who throw buckets of water on the giants.

[Staythecourse]

Well, it's certainly not a *bug* since bless effects stopping early was specifically introduced to fix an earlier bug where the replay gets stuck.

Whether it's a *good* solution to the earlier bug is another question. As is though, it gives niche usability to otherwise useless spells and is a solid part of the tactical rock paper scissors. In addition to Niefels, it's also a major downside to the use of the barkskin line of spells, which are by far the most accessible and usable protection buff spells.

[ulizez89]

Well.... we all hate the frozen giants with huge blesses, so I would say is working as intented =P

Now we need a test with pythium hydras =)

[Oor-tael]

Originally posted by Staythecourse:

Well, it's certainly not a *bug* since bless effects stopping early was specifically introduced to fix an earlier bug where the replay gets stuck.

Well that's interesting, and good to know. So no need to report it as a bug.

But even if everyone but the involved player love that exquisite ending, I can't help feeling bad for the player, and it leaves me with a bitter taste...
It should really be fixed. Once you know this, it becomes really easy to bleed a very expensive Niefel army.

[Mormacil]

That's why Niefelheim shouldn't use their giants outside a cold dominion. And that in part is a reason to not take a bless for Niefel, or at least not a major bless.

[ulizez89]

Originally posted by Bernardo:

Originally posted by Staythecourse:

Well, it's certainly not a *bug* since bless effects stopping early was specifically introduced to fix an earlier bug where the replay gets stuck.

Well that's interesting, and good to know. So no need to report it as a bug.

But even if everyone but the involved player love that exquisite ending, I can't help feeling bad for the player, and it leaves me with a bitter taste...
It should really be fixed. Once you know this, it becomes really easy to bleed a very expensive Niefel army.

Mmmmmm, sounds like balance to me, if not, a Niefel rush bless is really really hard to counter if you didn't choose an awaken pretender. The burn weakness gives you more options to counter them (the same with the hydras)