Succubus

[Twogun]

I know everyone says these are useless. But how do they work/how can you optimize them? Do they need penetration items? Gear? What are the best tactics?

I know nothing, so no suggestion(provided it is correct) is too rudimentary.

[Althaea]

Avoid conventional penetration, as it's not safe and may result in complications. A properly applied bottle of living water really helps you to go a long way, though. Penetration-boosting items such as the "Cat Charm" or "Bear's Claw" talisman may enhance performance, but this has not been satisfactorily proven by tests and may just be exploitative marketing.

Good protection goes a long way in avoiding accidents and afflictions. If the worst happens and you catch a disease after all, acquiring a cure-all potion or eye pendant may prove prohibitively expensive.

Have fun!

[jBrereton]

Give them 30 slaves so they can kill pretty much anything they don't seduce. Hellbind Heart, Leech, whatever works.

[Twogun]

while i don't doubt you, why would conventional penetration be unsafe? how can cat charm or bear claw help? isn't cat claw a defense item, and bear claw a strength item? why would she get diseased? doesn't the eye pendant effect precision? how would that help with a disease?

[jBrereton]

If you get diseased cast blood feast and remove it.

[Twogun]

speaking of blood feast, does it not work on mute? i had a leader get mute(very inconvenient), so i blood feasted him-the message said he'd lost many affflictions(he only had mute to begin with) and gained a taste for flesh. but when i checked, he was still mute. what gives?

[jBrereton]

Sometimes afflictions don't go on the first try (happens with all kinds of recuperation), cast it again and it'll probably work. Only one that's a real pain to get rid of is feeblemind.

[Twogun]

ok, i'll give it another go. thx.

[protokevin]

Yeah one of the things I still don't really get is how to efficiently kit guys out instead of trying to fully kit guys out.
*checks the mod inspector *
Wait succubi don't have body item slots? Weird!
But yeah, I might be wrong but morale boosting items could be good since running away = death? On a similar note fear causing items might be great, like that mask that autocasts frighten or something.
If it was me I'd just try random things and see what you find fun. If you have 2-3 differently kitted ones on the go then your opponent will be less able to prepare counters.

Also hope this "advice" doesn't come back to haunt me in our game =P If it is for the game I'm in then you can almost certainly afford to experiment a bit haha!

[Mormacil]

Originally posted by Twogun:

while i don't doubt you, why would conventional penetration be unsafe? how can cat charm or bear claw help? isn't cat claw a defense item, and bear claw a strength item? why would she get diseased? doesn't the eye pendant effect precision? how would that help with a disease?

The seduction effect works on morale, not magic resistence so penetration does nothing there. As for the items, both list they make someone more feminine. Game has plenty of hidden values we can only guess about. This might be one but all player tests have been inconclusive.

[Staythecourse]

Succubi do not use seduction. They use dream seduction, which does check MR.

Seduction checks solely against morale, but the check for all existing seducers is very low. The cat or bear charms do boost this check against appropriate targets, but only slightly, I think by one. A failed morale check, depending on how much it failed, can result in either nothing, or an assassination battle.

Dream seduction must first succeed in a MR check before going to a second morale check. However, all dream seducers have quite high morale checks if they ever reach that stage. This is important, because a failed MR check means no morale check is made and nothing happens, no chance for combat, and the high strength of the morale check means if the MR check succeeds, combat is also unlikely. Thus, depending on how much you value 66 slaves vs the gems needed for gear, you can get away with not bothering to kit Succubi for combat.

Note, I tested seduction and dream seduction when the distinction was first introduced, so keep in mind it may have changed.

As for how best to use succubi, they are the only generic commander with wall climbing. This means you can use the seduction ability to disrupt the defenders of a fort that you are sieging. Considering what a disaster a well scripted fort defense can be for the attacker, that can be valuable. And being a part of a sieging army, the succubus cannot be patrolled out.

With the way seducers, unlike assassins, needing multiple turns in place to be effective, patrolling makes them even more unusable than assassins. Except of course, either defending a sieged fort, or against a besieged fort for the wall climbers, during which patrolling is impossible.

[Othello]

Last time I checked a succubus isn't a mage either. She won't have any blood magic unless you empower which doesn't seem too wise IMO.

[Twogun]

don't worry protokevin, i have no idea what i'm doing here. and my understanding of game mechanics is so low that some of this advice isn't particularly usable, though i appreciate all of it.

[Gregstrom]

By the way, I'm pretty sure AlguLoD was being humorous with the disease reference. Succubi aren't negatively affected by disease because they're demons.

[ncarr99]

Originally posted by Gregstrom:

By the way, I'm pretty sure AlguLoD was being humorous with the disease reference. Succubi aren't negatively affected by disease because they're demons.

Yeah, I had to read it a couple of times before I figured out that it wasn't serious. But still, Hilarious.

[Twogun]

yeah. i feel a little silly now...