Ending discussion [WARNING: HEAVY SPOILERS]

[Cookie]

Greetings! Could anyone please explain me the ending? Ty!

[TsNAImostPrO]

whats up

[TsNAImostPrO]

sweet

[Odysseus]

dude

[Odysseus]

^

[TsNAImostPrO]

what up

[Limmin]

Since this is a spoiler thread I'll just go ahead here...

Having just finished this game I'm reminded of a story where the main character experiences something similar "at the end of his life" where he enters into some kind of weird temporal loop and pretty much lives "forever" in his own mind.

That's the mind-bending story "Hard Boiled Wonderland and The End of the World" (really) by Haruki Murakami. I'll bet Murakami's story influenced "Ethan Carter" in some way.

Here, the entire story here is within the landscape of Ethan's imaginative mind, and takes place within a really short timeframe. I noticed the clocks all read 7PM around town and the sun never moves. In the Murakami story, our hero retreats into his own mind and can't escape, and lives a whole lifetime in there, subjective time, while little time passes in the real world.

[Bigby]

A couple of details I haven't seen mentioned here. One is the fact that the lantern was in the church and *broken*. I don't think it was broken in the church scene, which suggests that it ends up there *after* the fire that traps Ethan. Another detail is the scissors and the spool. Kind of a weird place for the scissors to end up after Dale killed himself with them, and the spool of rope was actually cut and used to tie a safety net across the broken elevator railing. I wonder if the killings were imaginary, but the objects were actually moved for other reasons.

[skullsandlace]

Ok, so I feel that I need to add to this discussion even though I'll essentially be repeating a lot of what people have already said. The reason I am adding to this discussion is because the one part of the story I was confused on, even after reading several interpretations, was why certain characters in the game wanted the sleeper to wake up while others did not. So here is my interpretation.

SPOILERS AHEAD:

As everyone else has noted, I do believe that Ethan was indeed the sleeper, and I do believe that in the end, he died. After all, he tells Paul Prospero "you were too late." And yes, I realize that everything in the story, including your character, has been a figment of Ethan's imagination. The gameplay is Ethan replaying various stories in his head as he falls into death. But what does it actually mean when we say Ethan is the "sleeper," and why are certain members of the family SO set on making sure this sleeper wakes up (Missy, Travis, Chad) while others want the sleeper to sleep (Dale and Ed)?

I believe Ethan is called "the sleeper" because he is "going to sleep" through death. Once the fire consumes him (or once he dies from smoke inhalation) he will be "asleep." Missy, Chad, and Travis are all shown throughout the game trying to please this metaphorical sleeper by giving him Ethan, which is symbolic of their attempts to put out the fire and save Ethan before he dies. In the imaginary world, the sleeper has gotten into their heads. Well, as we know, the sleeper isn't actually a supernatural demon, and I believe this "sleeper" that's gotten into their heads in real life is Ethan, but more specifically, their guilt for how they treated him. Missy, Chad, and Travis are so set on waking the sleeper up because it pains them to allow Ethan to die (sleep) especially when they have treated him like crap their entire lives. (As evidenced through the various audio and notes in the game)

On the other hand, Dale and Ed try to prevent Missy, Chad, and Travis from getting to Ethan because they want the sleeper to sleep. The sleeper is partially in their heads as well in the imaginary world, meaning that they want to wake Ethan up (save him from the fire). However, they fight to allow Ethan to sleep because they know that in death, he will be at peace - away from the other members of his cruel family. This is why in the final story/dream, Ed closes the door on Ethan as he lights the room on fire, commenting that the sleeper must not wake up and that we all have to die. He mentions his wife Gayle who is helping him think straight. Gayle, who has been dead, will welcome Ethan with open arms into a much better world. (Remember, Gayle also died the same way as Ethan, as we learn from the very first story in the game)

Further proof that Ed and Dale are encouraging Ethan's death/sleep is shown in the final scene when Ethan comments that the sleeper's victims only suffer by staying awake. To Ethan, death (or eternal sleep) is preferable to the lonely and abusive life he lived before the fire.

I know that this isn't a perfect interpretation, and I'm sure many holes could be poked into this theory. In fact, I find it hard to believe that a father and grandfather would want their (grand)son dead, BUT, based on the evidence provided in the game and through other interpretations, this is the best conclusion I could come up with.

[Ardenian]

Originalmente postado por angelofmusicphan:

(...) However, they fight to allow Ethan to sleep because they know that in death, he will be at peace - away from the other members of his cruel family. (...)

This theory has a very bitter taste to me. There are many many better ways to ensure a family member will have a better life than leaving him to death in a burning house.

There is doubt from my side that the imaginary Ed is truly on Ethan's side and mission to prevent the Sleeper from waking up, destroying the Sleeper. While he kills Travis, saving Ethan, and accompanies Ethan to burn the Sleeper, he mentions in the first vision of Paul that he can feel the Sleeper speaking to him and Ethan doesn't believe that he has a clear mind, telling him to stay away. Ultimately, Ed allows the door to the final chamber to close, effectively trapping Ethan with the Sleeper. Ethan also shouts something like "Grandpa, no!", which indicates that this act was not meant to be supportive of Ethan's mission. Additionally, the first story, Traps&Stories, indicates that Ed is no different than the other family members when it comes to Ethan. He is more supportive, calmer, but not different.

The real Dale is seen to fight the flames with Missy, trying to save Ethan, if I recall correctly, which would contradict your theory, even if Ethan does not know about that, storytellling-wise that would be a strange contradiction.

There are also some strange parallels. If one says that Ethan is the Sleeper, then it is clear that his imaginary family wants to wake up the Sleeper, which means saving Ethan in the real world. There is, however, one very strong point which confuses me. While Ethan is the Sleeper, the imaginary Ethan tries to kill the Sleeper, so why? Of course, the imaginary Ethan does not know about him being the Sleeper, but it raises serious points about the real Ethan's mindset. Since the imaginary Ethan tries to kill the Sleeper, doesn't that mean he effectively tries to kill himself, making Ethan suicical?

There is another evidence for Ethan being suicidal. After entering the final room of the Sleeper, we know that in both the imaginary and the real world, there is nothing in there, yet Ethan sets that room on fire in the imaginery world. However, what exactly did he set on fire? There is nothing special inside that room except himself. One could argue that the imaginary Ethan actually tries to set the door on fire, to be able to escape the real fire and live, that might be a more positive interpretation, but Ethan's intent of killing the Sleeper contradicts this and Ethan should also know that a seemingly metal door doesn't burn.

Furthermore, when Missy accidently causes the fire, his first reaction is to slam the door, which appears strange to me. He seems to be smart, so why would he smash the door, trapping himself? When told that the smoke is toxic, he immediatly tries to leave, as if he realized what is about to do, showing strong doubts, but eventually giving up, laying down as if to sleep.

Imaginary Dale's suicide could be explained with Ethan trying to make his own "suicide" acceptable, allowing himself to give up and die. Since Dale appeared to be the closest to Ethan, as the content of the patent letter indicates a similar mindset, he chose his father to take a similar role as he his about to take. Just as his father escaping his family and the horrors of the imaginary world, so Ethan allows himself to leave the real world and his horrible family by choosing to give up and die.

Another evidence for this is Paul saying something about Dale thinking that his suicide wouldn't feed the Sleeper, which he deems wrong. This is actually quite mature by Ethan, as his character Paul realizes that suicide is the wrong way and does not end suffering. This is further indicated when Ethan and Paul meet at the end, with Ethan saying 'You are too late'. This means that Paul, a supernatural investigator, symbolizes Ethan's maturity and Ethan realized too late what he was doing, causing more suffering, for his family.

All in all, the weakest point of this theory is Ethan's 'decision' to commit suicide, since that was neither an attempt nor a real decision, more an outcome of decisions which Ethan made when he smashed the door, his death being a consequence of him preferring to close himself into a room instead of running to his family. This might also explain, however, why in the imaginary world, Ethan portraits his family as violent and mad, in some way giving them the fault of what happened to him.

[Robolov]

I'm coming even later than Prospero, but I don't think I've seen anyone mention this in the first ten pages of this thread: Paul Prospero (who is part of Ethan's imagination or a representation of Ethan himself) has got to cross an *underground (boiling) river* before the player can get to the end.
This feels to me like a pretty obvious reference to the Greek Styx myth. Put together with the looping tunnel from the start, we can assume that this is related to Ethan's death. He's "seeing the light at the end of the tunnel" at the beginning, meaning he is dying and knows it. The river could be his consciousness crossing the threshold, accepting death (the "acceptance" achievement comes quite soon after that).

If I was to go further, I'd say that Paul Prospero is basically a psychopomp. These creatures are supposed to guide spirits on their way to the afterlife, and they're sometimes thought to be influenced by the very people they're guiding (through their beliefs and/or imagination), which could explain the Ethan/Prospero link, his name (Poe + Shakespeare, both read by Ethan) and his overall mannerisms, which come from pulp stories Ethan enjoyed and internalised. Prospero is seeing Ethan's experiences (the lore plus "real" parts) as well as his thoughts (materialised through the Sleeper parts), all of which are entangled due to the very nature of our character. Also, we can imagine that a psychopomp, a being who accesses people's consciousnesses, is able to see the facts (lore + "reality") as well as Ethan's take on it (the dreams) and the occasional glimpse of his subconscious (the references to books and stories). It should even be quite difficult to separate these since the child has a poor grasp on reality and strong desire for escapism, so it would only be natural that this ends up mixed up in this dying child's mind.
In this scenario, the investigation is pretty much Prospero helping Ethan free himself from his grievances while guiding his spirit/soul through physical death (the tunnel) and the acceptance (the river) that is needed to access to the afterlife (the final sleep at 7:04).
Each crime scene is linked to some sort of strong negative emotion that has been projected on a member of the family that didn't support the escapist kid. The ending scene is Ethan, ready for the afterlife, realising his relatives were neither fundamentally bad (the bullying) nor good (the firefighting), but only humans. In the end, he renounces life by closing the door, then has a moment of hesitation before finally letting his spirit go free of any earthly considerations.

Well, that's one of my takes on it, and it's basically a spin-off of the easy "Prospero = Ethan" explanation. Whether or not I'm any close to what the writers thought about, this game handled its thematics brilliantly. This was thought-inducing on so many points! Also, F you miner-guy.

[Prike]

Alright, aside all the stories does anyone know what do i do with the rifle?

[biubiubiu]

Originalmente postado por Lord Weh:

SPOILERS! - I'll answer these questions as best I can, the thread is marked spoiler, the answers are spoilers, if you haven't finished the game or don't want spoilers, DON'T READ THIS!

1 - The sleeper is Ethan, it's him sleeping / dreaming from the toxic smoke from the fire at the end.

2 - Ethan is an introverted child interested in reading and writing fantastical stories. His family don't support his creativity, they sigh when he shows them his stories, and they put them aside and tell him they will read them later. His stories are escapist fantasies.

They DON'T murder each other, in reality. The whole game is a toxic fantasy constructed in Ethan's mind and through the stories he wrote. He felt his family hated him, he built up a fantasy whereby his family are acting this way because of an alien, outside force.

At the end, his family are alive, trying to help put out the fire to save Ethan. They just were abusive and non-supportive to him, making Ethan seek out his escapist fantasies.

3 - The man was Ethan's father, Dale, he killed himself to be free of 'The Sleeper' (Ethan's dream). He felt that this would stop 'feeding the sleeper', but your character, Paul Prospero, mentioned that it failed, the sleeper still feeds off the anger and agony. Again, the sleeper is Ethan, it's his unconscious self creating a dark world fueled by the abuse / lack of support / passive aggressiveness members of his family direct at him.

4 - The character you play, Paul Prospero, is a fictional creation of Ethan's. The game is Ethan's dreamworld, reflecting the reality he lived in through his science fiction and fantasy writing. You never existed, only in Ethan's mind and stories. Ethan may or may not be alive, he is trapped in the burning building, falling into unconsciousness through the smoke. His family are trying to put out the flames.

Thanks! This interpreation helps a lot. I just finished game and I get really confused. I know it has been a while but i am glad people still can talk about it here.

I have a thought that the sleeper could be the "guilty" of the famliy members? Because if Ethan is the sleeper, why he unconciously influence his famlity hurt himself? I guess this maybe how they feel about Ethan themelves. Like father Dale, maybe he has the same situation (patents are rejected) so he feel sorry for Ethan and save him many times.

[Meglithien]

Recently played this game and I've been exploring all small details.

Did anyone else realize that Amets, the name on grave in the crypt (assumably Albert Vandegriff's wife) means "a dream" in Basque?

https://www.behindthename.com/name/amets

[Meglithien]

Also, I asked someone about the carving in Latin on Amets Vandegriff's tombstone.

Apparently "Quoad Denuo Cocamus" means "How long until we meet again?"

So nothing too supernatural there. I also wouldn't give too much meaning to Amets' name's meaning. Even though it's a cool little fact.

[Dante]

I would so love to see a Game Theory episode really dig into this one. So many of the names have deeper references and I would love to see what Matt Pat and friends could figure out O_O.