AWE Question: Should players be able to shoot and sprint at the same time?

[Artificial]

Before I start work on my massive AWE rebalancing mod, I'd like pose a few questions to the community and get some input from you guys on a few things.

-

So in BFE, you could reload while sprinting (if I recall correctly though, you technically couldn't even reload while sprinting in vanilla BFE. Only started to be allowed in Fusion edition.) which I think was definitely for the better, but in SS4, once you get the reloading-while-running perk, it will also allow you to shoot while running. This is more questionable, and I can see both the advantages and disadvantages of allowing it.

[Joseph Peace]

ok, so about sprinting and shooting
well first and foremost, its about balance, if there are game sections where shooting and running is not enough, and instead sprinting and shooting is needed, then it's definately better to add it

however, i didn't like it honestly, makes gameplay janky as hell, fingers occupied unnecessarily all the time making then spasm and hurt, and toggle mode isn't really my thing, and even then its still annoying
also, it's not required in the main game, not even on serious difficulty, and doesn't really make the game easier, and doesn't make the gunplay any more fun

you can activate this skill, and you'll find yourself playing without it just fine, less tedious, and more fun in my opinion

[Sar]

You can't sprint backwards, it's not Doom, so it's not THAT much of a power boost. It is a bit jank in implementation, though.

Anyway, it's your mod. I think 4 is actually pretty well balanced, so you should probably specifically target players dissatisfied with it.

[Artificial]

Originally posted by Sar:

I think 4 is actually pretty well balanced, so you should probably specifically target players dissatisfied with it.

It's balanced better in some aspects than the past games, I'll give it that, but it's still not there yet. Just for starters (without attachments) the single shotty is almost completely useless in comparison to the DB shotty and the AR has this unnecessarily huge spread on hip fire with lackluster damage.

[Sar]

SG has way more range and with dual-wield I'd pick it over DB 9 times out of 10 (the 1 out of 10 time is super close range engagements).

I think you're supposed to ADS with AR or fire in bursts if you want accuracy. Or just use the single shotgun. I love that they went back to Doom 1 for the "inspiration" for it.

[Dr. NOOOOOOOO]

Absolutely. Makes the game way more fun.

[Artificial]

Originally posted by Sar:

SG has way more range and with dual-wield I'd pick it over DB 9 times out of 10 (the 1 out of 10 time is super close range engagements).

I think you're supposed to ADS with AR or fire in bursts if you want accuracy. Or just use the single shotgun. I love that they went back to Doom 1 for the "inspiration" for it.

The single shotty technically has more range, but it doesn't matter because the DB shotty is so damn powerful even at medium and longish ranges. And since the single shotty has an slow time to pump, pretty much matching the DB shotty's reload, the single shotty has no advantage at all except maybe at very long ranges, and even then, you're better off using the sniper anyway (or the pistol if you're in the early game). The good news is, there's a ton of ways to make the single shotty fully relevant again, but the point is that, as things are now, the single shotty needs changing. And maybe the DB shotty too while we're talking about the shottys.

I don't mind the ADS with the AR per se, but I shouldn't be forced to use it to make the rifle usable, or use burst fire when hip firing as this isn't Insurgency. And hell, if we're really gonna get into what's realistic, a typical M4 doesn't actually have that much recoil, making it one of the rifles you can fire that has an overall great shooting experience. Now again, like the single shotty, there's a ton that can be done to make it fully relevant again. I'll probably just stick to what I did with my BFE AWE pack and make it a powerful automatic rifle, limited by a typical 30-round mag.

[zonzon le raton]

Sprinting and shooting at the same time forwards ONLY is not a problem.
It can allow you to clear enemies in front of you while herding enemies behind you (think geometry wars gameplay)

But it can be felt cheesy as I do not believe Serious sam is a game that should be about enemy herding. (it never was before SS4)

[zonzon le raton]

Originally posted by Artificial:

The single shotty technically has more range, but it doesn't matter because the DB shotty is so damn powerful even at medium and longish ranges. And since the single shotty has an slow time to pump, pretty much matching the DB shotty's reload, the single shotty has no advantage at all except maybe at very long ranges

I have posted somewhere something about the single shotgun being better than double shotgun.
I was wrong because I never noticed that the DB shotgun gained something in SS4; it has a damage multiplier against some types of enemies.
A single DB shotgun pellet kills a single processed, it's completely OP

A single SB shotgun pellet deals like 20% hp of a processed, you'd need a clean shot to kill one. (needing to be pretty close)

Many times using the DB shotgun to plow through massive hordes of 3X processed I said to myself : "that's really a noob gun, just shoot and pray that it hits a lot"
But it works...

But against kleers, somehow, the SB shotgun is way better ! (they don't have the damage bonus with DB shotgun)

[Dr. NOOOOOOOO]

Originally posted by zonzon le raton:

Sprinting and shooting at the same time forwards ONLY is not a problem.
It can allow you to clear enemies in front of you while herding enemies behind you (think geometry wars gameplay)

But it can be felt cheesy as I do not believe Serious sam is a game that should be about enemy herding. (it never was before SS4)

whats wrong with sprinting and shooting backwards?

[zonzon le raton]

Originally posted by Dr. NOOOOOOOO:

whats wrong with sprinting and shooting backwards?

You'll be able to outrun most of the enemies and shoot at them at the same time, making them unable to ever touch you if you know what you are doing.
That would make the game trivial.

In my opinion, SS4 is already too easy as is; people being able to play with 2x enemies speaks volumes.

There is no need to make the game even easier.

Also it would be better to just increase baseline speed.

[Artificial]

Originally posted by zonzon le raton:

people being able to play with 2x enemies speaks volumes.

It's always been like that though, to be honest. Unless you're not talking about co-op.

[Sar]

I had no idea DB shotty is powerful vs. processed, I should try it. I like double SGs more vs. kleers since you can kill them midrange. And don't forget SG has an alt-fire and DB does not.

I think with AR they really wanted to limit the long range spray and pray gameplay, like being able to kill stuff you can barely see with TG/MG in original. Now you have AR for some short range spraying, double ARs for very short range minigun lite, and the minigun proper for midrange full auto. Makes sense with headshots being a thing.

[Artificial]

Originally posted by Sar:

I had no idea DB shotty is powerful vs. processed, I should try it. I like double SGs more vs. kleers since you can kill them midrange. And don't forget SG has an alt-fire and DB does not.

I think with AR they really wanted to limit the long range spray and pray gameplay, like being able to kill stuff you can barely see with TG/MG in original. Now you have AR for some short range spraying, double ARs for very short range minigun lite, and the minigun proper for midrange full auto. Makes sense with headshots being a thing.

I MAY remove dual-wielding and just buff the original weapons in turn. Depends on if I can balance dual-wielding with the solo weapons. Kinda doubt it though and I think I'm gonna run into the same brick wall that Bungie did.

[Sar]

Might as well remove HS then, since a powerful accurate AR will DESTROY most headshottable enemies at any range.

[Artificial]

Originally posted by Sar:

Might as well remove HS then, since a powerful accurate AR will DESTROY most headshottable enemies at any range.

My philosophy for the AR is that it should be an all-rounder weapon. Jack of all trades but master of none.