Kensai or Archer?

[SlashPatriarchy]

I want to start out by saying I mean a pure Kensai. I know Kensai/Mages are badass but I don't want to dual class.

Anyway, I'd like to play an archer but I've heard that later in the game and especially in ToB, archers are much less effective, due to the need for specific ammo that isn't plentiful, in order to hit some enemies. Would I be able to overcome this weakness by using special shortbows or crossbows that supply their own ammo, instead of longbows?

The other class I'm considering is a Kensai. I was going to do two weapon fighting and focus on flail and either long sword or scimitar. Are there any weapons that would be better to be proficient in, or would any of those three weapon types be perfectly viable? Also, for a pure Kensai, is dual weilding the best choice, or would it be better to do one weapon fighting, for the defense bonus?

Thank you for any help you can give me. I never played ToB and it's been many years since I played SoA

[SeverusREN]

Archer kit is extremly usefull in all parts of Baldur's Gate (1, 2, ToB). Yes, in ToB you will need A LOT OF arrows with +2 enchantment (before you will obtain endless quiver +2) and you must buy/collect all arrows +3. Archer progress in damage with every 3 levels and it makes him "the wind of death" thru all journey. Chose Longbows with maximum damage (THAC0 does not matter, it is extremely high) and target enemy mages/clerics. Arrows of dispelling and acid arrows are very useful. Crossbows are good too, but they loose in speed, FireTooth (upgraded) is very, very good choice, in any case. The only mobs vs Archer sucks is golems. But you can give to archer 1 point of specialisation in same blunt weapon, this will help to crash golems down (it's necessary only for single playing). Short bows isn't good choice, IMHO.
Kensai .... the "born to kill" guy. But recommend you to dual him to mage or thief. Thief class in high levels will give you "use any items" ability, and your Kensai can wear plate(or any another) armor, + backstab, etc. Dualing in mage is cheat, i think :)

[SlashPatriarchy]

Publicado originalmente por SeverusREN:

Archer kit is extremly usefull in all parts of Baldur's Gate (1, 2, ToB). Yes, in ToB you will need A LOT OF arrows with +2 enchantment (before you will obtain endless quiver +2) and you must buy/collect all arrows +3. Archer progress in damage with every 3 levels and it makes him "the wind of death" thru all journey. Chose Longbows with maximum damage (THAC0 does not matter, it is extremely high) and target enemy mages/clerics. Arrows of dispelling and acid arrows are very useful. Crossbows are good too, but they loose in speed, FireTooth (upgraded) is very, very good choce, in any case. The only mobs vs Archer sucks is golems. But you can give to archer 1 point of specialisation in same blunt weapon, this will help to crash golems down (it's necessary only for single playing). Short bows isn't good choice, IMHO.
Kensai .... the "born to kill" guy. But recommend you to dual him to mage or thief. Thief class in high levels will give you "use any items" ability, and your Kensai can wear plate(or any another) armor, + backstab, etc. Dualing in mage is cheat, i think :)

Well I don't want to dual class my Kensai because, as far as I know, that's only available to humans and I prefer to avoid humans when I play fantasy or sci-fi games. I would play as either a half orc for Kensai or an elf for Kensai or archer. But if I went with archer, is special ammo absolutely necessary. When I played Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale games in the past, I don't remember every needing to go shopping for special ammo and I would always just buy regular arrows. Will I be screwed if I don't buy +4 or 5 arrows, or is it just a few encounters? I don't especially like the idea of having to clog up my inventory with every type of arrow I can find and having to switch out arrow types all the time

[SeverusREN]

There is many problems with ammo for Archer, 1-st : Archer at high levels shoots with minigun speed, ammo will end very very soon. Especially if you buff haste or improve haste, or use innate wirlwind attack. Endless quiver much help. 2-nd : many mobs have resistance to ordinary weapons (in ToB, SoA) so unenchanted arrows sucks. 3-rd: To hit Epic bosses you need at least +3 enchanted weapon (arrow in this case) - there is no very big amount of this stuff in shops or loot. Final boss in ToB can be pierced only with +4 ench.weapon. But Archer can be used not to hit boss, but to eliminate summoned by boss swarm of demons, elementals etc. Tactic is simple, use endless quiver (+2) for ordinar fights, special arrows (dispell, fireball...) on your own, and collect +3 and higher ammo for boss challenge. There is no +5 arrows in game.
Kensai in pure case is very good meele-damager, but is vulnerable in couse of inability of wearing armor. Good choice is two-handed weapon, that gives him opportunity to reach attack, staying behind the back of your "tank". Two-handed weapons with ability "two-handed weapon style" are also gives you more frequent chance to land crit hit to your foe. Crit from kensai with boosted strenght attribute, armed with two-handed weapon, with activated Kai ... you'll like it.

[Moff]

Publicado originalmente por SlashPatriarchy:

Anyway, I'd like to play an archer but I've heard that later in the game and especially in ToB, archers are much less effective, due to the need for specific ammo that isn't plentiful, in order to hit some enemies. Would I be able to overcome this weakness by using special shortbows or crossbows that supply their own ammo, instead of longbows?

Yes, in BG2 you'll need magic ammo to deal with most monsters, and there's not a whole lot to be found. As far as i remember, there are no +4 arrows at all, and even +3 arrows are only available in ToB. So i'd say that if you're going to be an archer, you should go for shortbows. And shortbow of Gesen is probably the best bow in the game with it's infinite +4 ammo and additional electric damage on hit that goes through just about any protection.

Publicado originalmente por SlashPatriarchy:

The other class I'm considering is a Kensai. I was going to do two weapon fighting and focus on flail and either long sword or scimitar. Are there any weapons that would be better to be proficient in, or would any of those three weapon types be perfectly viable? Also, for a pure Kensai, is dual weilding the best choice, or would it be better to do one weapon fighting, for the defense bonus?

You can't go too wrong with longswords, as there's plenty of them throughout the entire game.
And dual wielding is the best choice. While having -2 AC from SWS is nice, for a kensai offence is the best defence indeed. You can get 2 extra attacks per round when dual wielding a speed weapon, and that almost doubles your damage output. Can't top that with any other weapon style.

[SlashPatriarchy]

Publicado originalmente por Moff:

Publicado originalmente por SlashPatriarchy:

Anyway, I'd like to play an archer but I've heard that later in the game and especially in ToB, archers are much less effective, due to the need for specific ammo that isn't plentiful, in order to hit some enemies. Would I be able to overcome this weakness by using special shortbows or crossbows that supply their own ammo, instead of longbows?

Yes, in BG2 you'll need magic ammo to deal with most monsters, and there's not a whole lot to be found. As far as i remember, there are no +4 arrows at all, and even +3 arrows are only available in ToB. So i'd say that if you're going to be an archer, you should go for shortbows. And shortbow of Gesen is probably the best bow in the game with it's infinite +4 ammo and additional electric damage on hit that goes through just about any protection.

Publicado originalmente por SlashPatriarchy:

The other class I'm considering is a Kensai. I was going to do two weapon fighting and focus on flail and either long sword or scimitar. Are there any weapons that would be better to be proficient in, or would any of those three weapon types be perfectly viable? Also, for a pure Kensai, is dual weilding the best choice, or would it be better to do one weapon fighting, for the defense bonus?

You can't go too wrong with longswords, as there's plenty of them throughout the entire game.
And dual wielding is the best choice. While having -2 AC from SWS is nice, for a kensai offence is the best defence indeed. You can get 2 extra attacks per round when dual wielding a speed weapon, and that almost doubles your damage output. Can't top that with any other weapon style.

Yeah I've pretty much decided on the Kensai. But are long swords the best choice for weapons? I want to have points in flails for ToB, since I hear some enemies can only be killed with blunt weapons. I like the look of dual weilding scimitars better, but if long swords are the better choice, in terms of power and avilability, I'll just go with them

[DnD Detective]

Publicado originalmente por SeverusREN:

Chose Longbows with maximum damage (THAC0 does not matter, it is extremely high)

Go with Shortbows over Longbow when playing an archer. Its possible with it to get 5 attacks per round (APR) with a shortbow since you can get one (Tuigan bow) that grants 3 APR very shortly into the game. When you get the Shortbow of Gesen you'll likely be doing more damage than any longbow anyways (since that grants +2 piercing and + 1d8 electric damage to any of your attacks).

Edit: Looks like OP decided on the Kensai.

Scimitars and Flails would be safe choices for a Kensai. Belm (scimitar) could be used on your offhand to give you extra attacks, while you could be wielding perhaps the Flail of Ages on your mainhand.

[SeverusREN]

SWS does not work while you are dual wielding.
Gesen bow does not progress in damage from Arher kit, it have steady (and very low in reality of ToB) damage. Yes, it is +4, hits everything, does not require ammo, but damage from lightning is scanty. You can use ammo for Gesen bow, just by putting arrows in quiver on character doll, but in this case you loose lightning damage and bonus to THAC0, game engine will calculate THAC0 and damage from arrows.
Choice for Archer is only between longbow and heavy crossbow.

UPDATE
Was wrong. Gesen bow works fine with damage progress from Archer kit, and applies right bonus of lighting damage to equipped arrows. Tested.

[DnD Detective]

Publicado originalmente por SeverusREN:

SWS does not work while you are dual wielding.
Gesen bow does not progress in damage from Arher kit, it have steady (and very low in reality of ToB) damage. Yes, it is +4, hits everything, does not require ammo, but damage from lightning is scanty. You can use ammo for Gesen bow, just by putting arrows in quiver on character doll, but in this case you loose lightning damage and bonus to THAC0, game engine will calculate THAC0 and damage from arrows.
Choice for Archer is only between longbow and heavy crossbow.

Nah I just tested it. You still get the thac0 and damage bonuses (including lightning damage) with Gesen when using arrows from your quiver.

[ÄmJii]

I concur with kamster99 on this one, by the time you hit BG2 shortbows will blow longbows out of the water.

I also tested the Gesen/Tansheron + regular arrows, the game adds arrow damage on top of weapons "own ammo". In other words, Gesen loaded with regular arrows deals 1D6+2 Piercing & 1-8 Lightning damage per shot.

[Moff]

Publicado originalmente por SlashPatriarchy:

Yeah I've pretty much decided on the Kensai. But are long swords the best choice for weapons? I want to have points in flails for ToB, since I hear some enemies can only be killed with blunt weapons. I like the look of dual weilding scimitars better, but if long swords are the better choice, in terms of power and avilability, I'll just go with them

Flails are fine, and arguably the best weapon in the game is a flail, long swords are just more common is all. But anyway, kensai's bonuses to hit and damage get so ridiculously high at some point, that he can wield any weapon, whether he is proficient in it or not.

Publicado originalmente por SeverusREN:

Gesen bow does not progress in damage from Arher kit

Bonus may not be listed in the inventory (i think it's the case with Tansheron's as well), but it does applies.

[Emmental]

As a non power gamer I would go katana with single weapon style as a role playing choice for a pure kensai.

[SeverusREN]

We playing different games, i think. Short bow is better then Long. Funny.
no comments from this moment.
Just take character, go to Promenade and shoot everything. Look at damage log, compare.

[danconnors]

About the best missile weapon you can get is Melf's Minute Meteors (or missiles?). They are classed as +5 missiles, and a good fighter/mage, at high levels, can produce and fire 100 of them in a single Boss fight.

My berserker/mage has brought down 2 dragons and Kangaxx the Demilich with massive bombardments of MMM. He can fire off 5 per round, and with a THAC0 of zero or less a large fraction of them hit. Excellent missile weapon, and you don't have to buy ANY ammo for it.

[Kagemin]

Publicado originalmente por SeverusREN:

We playing different games, i think. Short bow is better then Long. Funny.
no comments from this moment.
Just take character, go to Promenade and shoot everything. Look at damage log, compare.

Long bows are better than short bows. But the best short bow is better than the best long bows.

[Wyvern]

My Cleric/Ranger using sling is a killing machine from range with lots of buffs and summons. Perfectly rounded character for me.