Yoshimo

[Amaterasu]

I know he is going to betray me at the end of Chapter 2 when I get to the spellhold, but I still keep him in my party regardless for two reasons. 1. I like his quips and 2. I, the player have that knowledge, but my Drow Cleric, Thessalia, doesn't. While she would find it suspicious that someone suddenly came to her aid when she needed it most, but she wouldn't really have any other reason to distrust him.

I know that he's just eating experience points that other characters won't get(I mostly have the party I have in mind for the rest of the game set up. Keldorn and Minsc as frontline tanks, Anomen and I as sort of variable range buffers and if need be, sling a few harmful clerical spells or just call up some things to fight with us, with us mostly staying in the front line to help keep the backline from being targeted by melee fighters and to pressure mages(I'm a priest of helm so I get Seeking Sword and True Sight for free, I'm thinking of replacing Naila with Imoen and I'm definitely going to replace Yoshimo with Mazzy. Because after Chapter 2, I'm going to be going in completely blind. I just kind of want to run into the things on my own).

I just wanted to ask if it's odd that I justify keeping him in my party for RP reasons, trying to keep out of game knowledge out of the game. And just how badly other character I recruit would ultimately be affected considering aside from Edwin, none of the mages I know of can reach level 9 spells(And being that I played my character as thinking Dynahier and Minsc as close friends, she'd sooner shove the Flail of Ages +3 where Helm ain't gonna look, business end first sooner than she'd ever try to journey with him) and thieves level up quickly.

[Sstavix]

I don't think any action can be considered odd for RP reasons. If it fits the character that you're playing, then go for it.

The important part is that you're having fun. Don't worry about the min/max factor or powergaming (unless that's your thing, of course). Get into your character and try to see the story through their eyes.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

That's in Chapter 4.

[Kamuizin]

It’s useful to have him in party, since you have a thief at ch4 and when he betrays you, you get Imoen back.

Unless you have Edwin in party that altruistically (probably not) offer to go back to Akhlata by himself, you may find yourself without a way to bring all your companions back from spellhold and ending with the need to chose one to left forever there.

If memory serves me right, you can just go ultra evil banters and tell Imoen to screw herself, that you’re there just to hunt for Irenicus. She goes back pissed off if i’m not wrong, but if you don’t have the heart to follow these banters and end in the change character screen, anyone you left there (Imoen included) will be out of reach forever in BG2 (still summonable in ToB, but i never tested to see if it’s the same character or a new template one).

[Peter]

You don't have to leave anyone in Spellhold. Just release one companion before entering Spellhold and then take Imoen.

[Kamuizin]

Originally posted by Peter:

You don't have to leave anyone in Spellhold. Just release one companion before entering Spellhold and then take Imoen.

Yes, i know you can metagame it, but yoshimo in party is the core choice of the old devs to deal with it, sole exception being Edwin in party, whom for reasons no one knows offer to go back alone (and manage to).

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Originally posted by Amaterasu:

I just wanted to ask if it's odd that I justify keeping him in my party for RP reasons, trying to keep out of game knowledge out of the game. And just how badly other character I recruit would ultimately be affected considering aside from Edwin, none of the mages I know of can reach level 9 spells(And being that I played my character as thinking Dynahier and Minsc as close friends, she'd sooner shove the Flail of Ages +3 where Helm ain't gonna look, business end first sooner than she'd ever try to journey with him) and thieves level up quickly.

I almost always play considering also rp choices, because this gives to new playthrough more fun, otherws all the walkthrough would be too similar for me.
How much underlevelled the NPC will be depends on how many sidequest you did before going to Spellhold and if you already played a part of watcher's keep or not. Considering to play with a RP approach, you would probably have done the NPCs quest and some but not most of the side quests (e.g. Copper coronet, Nalia's castle, and Firkeerag dungeon without killing the dragon, but maybe not Trademeet and Windspear).
L'e'ts say that any character joining at 1.2 M is already an high level character and would be useful also if very underlevelled, but the real difference is made by HLA. So, simply, this character will reach HLA later.
For Imoen this won't be a problem, she has all Spellhold dungeon and underdark to farm XP, but the other characters could join only later, and will probably be underlevelled. Furthermore with a pure RP approach, if you have left many sub quests before going to spellhhold, you would hardly do many of them now, since the story brings you to go fast to the end.
Let's say that mixing RP and pre knoweledge, the best thing to do is to set your final party before going to Spellhold, with Yoishimo to be substituted with Imoen. Or rushing to Spellhold and leave most of the quest later, maybe doing some levels of Watcher's keep.
Otherwise play with a pure RP approach and forget about the substituion problem.

[Zotliatlicor]

No, Yoshimo is a Great character. The Betrayal thing is in fact one of the highlights, it is well written. Well done to the team that thought it up.

How Great Yoshimo can get depends on how much of chapter 2 you do before going to Spellhold. His Traps can be a big help in a LOT of battles, if you keep him around. But his "Story" is superb, and he IS the best thief in the game. When you loose him you have the Dev's default to get Imoen in return, and not a bad choice, but you will miss out on traps.

You can of course take several 'Rogues' and have traps. And if you make a party where Yoshimo does not fit, you can aviod him altogether.

I like to include Yoshimo whenever i 'think' i am going to rescue & Include Imoen. Perfect Swap. I do not consider his XP a waste, you need a thief after all. And there is only so much fun to be had with Jan or Hexxat

[Amaterasu]

Originally posted by Zotliatlicor:

No, Yoshimo is a Great character. The Betrayal thing is in fact one of the highlights, it is well written. Well done to the team that thought it up.

How Great Yoshimo can get depends on how much of chapter 2 you do before going to Spellhold. His Traps can be a big help in a LOT of battles, if you keep him around. But his "Story" is superb, and he IS the best thief in the game. When you loose him you have the Dev's default to get Imoen in return, and not a bad choice, but you will miss out on traps.

You can of course take several 'Rogues' and have traps. And if you make a party where Yoshimo does not fit, you can aviod him altogether.

I like to include Yoshimo whenever i 'think' i am going to rescue & Include Imoen. Perfect Swap. I do not consider his XP a waste, you need a thief after all. And there is only so much fun to be had with Jan or Hexxat

Don't mind the different account, this is my original one.

I couldn't have Hexxat in my party, I tend to RP good aligned characters and... well... if Anomen didn't kill her, Keldorn would. And if neither of them did, my character has a very good reason to not only not trust her... but smash her Flail of Ages +3 into Hexxat's face. Considering literally every other vampire has tried to kill her.

[Centurion]

Pardon the interruption: Yes, absolutely anything is legit for role-playing. It is called a RPG for a reason. And, almost always, I take Yoshimo to Spellhold for both story and Imoen. (Full admission: When we get there, he is Yoshimo the nerfed fighter with no weapons proficiencies he can use, not Yoshimo the back-stabbing rogue.) That said, unless you just want RPG (and I am doing more of that as the game has gotten easier and easier with each play), he is wasted XP and also not a substitute for Imoen.

The thing is this: thieves are really badly under-powered in the IE games. You need one, unless you love trap damage and not opening containers that won't budge for STR. But otherwise you have inadequate fighting skills (even backstab does not wow me) and snares are pretty weak (he does get better low-level traps.) But once you get HLAs, thieves become seriously over-powered. Their traps defeat everyone, use any item, etc. But you don't get these with Imoen (or Nalia,) And Hexxat is more than just a role-play issue in good parties. Simply put, Imoen is a mage (and an awesome one), not a real thief. Give her a potion or two and she can detect and disarm anything, but no spike traps and such. Imoen is not a replacement for Yoshimo,

This leaves you with Jan. But as a multi-class thief (he is really a swiss army knife), he needs all the XP he can get. Doesn't mean you can't carry both (how many fighters do you need?) Jan is a versatile thief and a great back-up caster with Imoen, If you like magic-heavy parties (I did this on a previous run), you can't go wrong. Maybe it's just me, but playing all the way through ToB with only a gimped thief is definitely the hard way.

[Kamuizin]

Xp can be manipulated on BG2, keep the party small and don’t end quests. Normal xp is shared and quest xp is given equally.

The starting xp (and level) of joinable characters is defined by your party, thus when you recruit your complete team, they can come high level (until 15).

This is most useful for haer’dalis, since is the only way to get him with illegal weapon specialization in long swords (14+ starting level afaik).

[Amaterasu]

Originally posted by Centurion:

Pardon the interruption: Yes, absolutely anything is legit for role-playing. It is called a RPG for a reason. And, almost always, I take Yoshimo to Spellhold for both story and Imoen. (Full admission: When we get there, he is Yoshimo the nerfed fighter with no weapons proficiencies he can use, not Yoshimo the back-stabbing rogue.) That said, unless you just want RPG (and I am doing more of that as the game has gotten easier and easier with each play), he is wasted XP and also not a substitute for Imoen.

The thing is this: thieves are really badly under-powered in the IE games. You need one, unless you love trap damage and not opening containers that won't budge for STR. But otherwise you have inadequate fighting skills (even backstab does not wow me) and snares are pretty weak (he does get better low-level traps.) But once you get HLAs, thieves become seriously over-powered. Their traps defeat everyone, use any item, etc. But you don't get these with Imoen (or Nalia,) And Hexxat is more than just a role-play issue in good parties. Simply put, Imoen is a mage (and an awesome one), not a real thief. Give her a potion or two and she can detect and disarm anything, but no spike traps and such. Imoen is not a replacement for Yoshimo,

This leaves you with Jan. But as a multi-class thief (he is really a swiss army knife), he needs all the XP he can get. Doesn't mean you can't carry both (how many fighters do you need?) Jan is a versatile thief and a great back-up caster with Imoen, If you like magic-heavy parties (I did this on a previous run), you can't go wrong. Maybe it's just me, but playing all the way through ToB with only a gimped thief is definitely the hard way.

I'm still shy of the 1.25 M exp cap for companions to gain when they join. Jan was sort of my idea for the actual thief where Imoen is the replacement for Nalia. So Technically, I haven't pissed away any EXP that could be given to companions. I know it's probably foolish considering I taught Nalia a lot of spells that are very helpful for baiting and trapping enemies(Skull Trap is great).

I was thinking of swapping Yoshimo out for Jan as he's kind of the only other thief I've got as I thought Mazzy was a thief, but she's a fighter, meaning she kind of competes with Keldorn(Who incidentally is the only thing I've killed with Blade barrier, not for a lack of trying), though I might switch Keldorn out for Mazzy because Grandmastery, more levels and more HLAs and I don't need 3 people with Summon Deva... I hope. I mean it'd probably be funny if the entire party's solution to every fight was "I SUMMON GODS TO DO OUR FIGHTING FOR US!")

[Kamuizin]

You can drop Keldorn personally in his personal quest (just be careful to unequip him, don’t knownif he dors that automatically). For myself i found it refreshing to give him my bless to take care of his family.

If you gonna use Jan Jansen, bring Anomen to your party, their banters are hilarious.

[Amaterasu]

Originally posted by Kamuizin:

You can drop Keldorn personally in his personal quest (just be careful to unequip him, don’t knownif he dors that automatically). For myself i found it refreshing to give him my bless to take care of his family.

If you gonna use Jan Jansen, bring Anomen to your party, their banters are hilarious.

Anomen is my backup Cleric. Sort of my more healing/summoning focused cleric while I'm more of a buffing/spell slinging cleric. Though we both have Lesser Restoration and Raise Dead.

[Centurion]

Originally posted by Amaterasu:

I'm still shy of the 1.25 M exp cap for companions to gain when they join. Jan was sort of my idea for the actual thief where Imoen is the replacement for Nalia. So Technically, I haven't pissed away any EXP that could be given to companions. I know it's probably foolish considering I taught Nalia a lot of spells that are very helpful for baiting and trapping enemies(Skull Trap is great).

I was thinking of swapping Yoshimo out for Jan as he's kind of the only other thief I've got as I thought Mazzy was a thief, but she's a fighter, meaning she kind of competes with Keldorn(Who incidentally is the only thing I've killed with Blade barrier, not for a lack of trying), though I might switch Keldorn out for Mazzy because Grandmastery, more levels and more HLAs and I don't need 3 people with Summon Deva... I hope. I mean it'd probably be funny if the entire party's solution to every fight was "I SUMMON GODS TO DO OUR FIGHTING FOR US!")

Funny. This play I dropped Keldorn for Mazzy (but my PC is a Cavalier, so....) Mazzy is absolutely amazing. She is almost an Archer, with much better armor, and eventually scales into a tough melee fighter. She also has quasi-Paladin special powers. Literally her only downsides compared to Keldorn are she can't dispel magic and she can't use holy swords. But I love her banters!

[Zotliatlicor]

Mazzy is a Machine Gun with her Grandmastey in Short Bows.