Nalia vs Imoen: a better look.

[Knight]

Dev thoughts

According to the devs, Imoen was meant to die in captivity. When they found she was the most popular character from the first game, they changed their mind. This left us with Imoen, a level 7 thief and Nalia, a level 4 thief. And as a result, most will just write Nalia off as an inferior Imoen.

In fact, Imoen wasn't even meant to be in BG1. She was a last minute addition they threw in because players kept dying early out alone.

EDIT: I'll make a correction by Včelí medvídek, they didn't intend for her to die in captivity but turn into the slayer and ravage suldanesselar. Seems dying in captivity was just an idea that floated around.

Overall stats

Same race, similar stats, Imoen actually got buffed in Enhanced Edition, with +15 to move silently, +10 to pick pockets, and +10 to find traps compared to BG2 normal edition, giving her a larger gap.

[Of course, the only real use you'll get out of her on this is find traps. Still, it's worth mentioning that imoen's no longer worse at picking pockets, and no longer her equal at moving silently. Another thing to mention is Imoen no longer requires a ring of danger sense to see every trap in the game.]

To top it off... Imoen will never abandon the mc. Doesn't matter if your rep is 1. She won't like it, and she'll plead with you to be better, but she'll stick around no matter what. Nalia will leave you though.

Let's compare their raw stats.
Imoen's stats:
Open Locks 95
Find Traps 95
Pick Pockets 35
Move Silently 35
Hide in Shadows 25
Detect Illusion 0
Set Traps 5

Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha
9 18 16 17 11 16

Nalia's stats
Open Locks 60
Find Traps 80
Pick Pockets 35
Move Silently 20
Hide in Shadows 15
Detect Illusion 0
Set Traps 5

Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha
14 18 16 17 9 13

Looking at these stats it's easy to just say Nalia couldn't lockpick her way out of a wet paper bag. She doesn't scale throughout bg as a thief, nor does she pick most lategame locks, or even some locks in her own personal quest in the keep.

They'll also both gain the max benefit of CON. 16 CON is the max you need on anything that's not a fighter. Though Imoen will benefit a bit more because she has more levels in thief.

Role in party

As another user, Zotliatlicor, mentioned She can replace her as a thief, though she's going to require a little more effort. For the most part all you need is a method to increase her detect traps, such as ring of danger sense.

Both of them have an equal max stats= 87 This ties them with Haer'Dalis for 5th place among best stats permanent companions in SOA.

(beaten by Hexxat, Dorn, Keldorn, and Jaheria)

On top of all that, Nalia doesn't have one of her ring slots, it'll always be her signet ring, she'll never unequip it, even in death.

There are advantages to WIS. As an example, remember that beholder who would ask you about guarding a chest during the prophecy of the sekolah? If you have 13 WIS, you can point out he was ordered to guard the chest, and not necessarily what was in the chest. Which is the only dialogue choice I can think of that runs a WIS check in the game. Of course anyone in the party can do this as long as they meet these requirements, and chances are you'll have at least one character who will be able to use these checks.

There's also a need for 18 WIS to use the "wish" spell with a guarantee of 1 positive result, but neither Imoen nor Nalia can do that.

Charisma is also in a similar boat. Just cast friends and your cha will boost +6. Of course, the prices max out at 20 cha, giving imoen a small and minor advantage here, if you have no other cha mages. I recall the normal edition of BG you could stack friends spell and max out cha with just a few uses of the spell.

And lastly while I would still say Nalia is the better one in terms of her non thief stats, STR can be manipulated easily as well. Quaff potions of hill giant strength, or equip one of the dozen belts that set STR to 19/20.

EDIT: correction by Zotliatlicor, they can't chug hill giant potions but they can use other methods I didn't bring up such as spells and red potion of strength.

By the end of the game most stats here are meaningless. The only minor advantage Nalia really has is carrying weight until you buy a belt to increase strength, which you'll see handed out like candy by the end game. Nalia's not really good as a front line thief, she like imoen is probably best off using gesen shortbow or melfs minute meteors. Thief stats can be improved with potions of thievery and dexterity improvements which are fairly rare. Therefore I'd argue Imoen's overall stats are better than Nalia's.

So... what are the upsides to Nalia?

In exchange for permanently losing a ring slot, she gains +2 to all saving throws and armor class, then a 50% bonus to all fire resistance. With the right equipment, she'll get 100% resistance to fire, allowing her to be on the frontline when you cast fireball on her, replacing the similar niche Xan once had in BG1. (Of course that's not a good place to put either of them)

You could even say this ring is Ring of Gaxx's little brother. No, it's not as good, but definitely has a lot of benefits. And keep in mind, there's a limit to the amount of ring of Gaxxs in the game. This makes it one of the best pieces of equipment to have.

Another upside to Nalia is her stats. STR is a much more valuable stat than CHA and WIS. Losing 3 in CHA and 2 in WIS for 5 STR is a worthwhile trade.

Taking that into account, let's presume you have another thief in your party. Jan Jansen, for instance, or Hexxat.

You won't need thieving from imoen, they'll both eclipse her in every thief way. As a result you won't see much need in taking imoen with you. Nalia's ring gives her a small advantage as a mage against imoen.

So, to TLDR;

I would say Nalia would better fit to a party that has at least one other dedicated thief or if the mc himself is a thief.

Other than that, Imoen is a better option.

[Zotliatlicor]

It is entirely possible to have Nalia as Sole Thief throughout the game. A bit of work, and dependanat on some specific Items, but doable.

Nalia is a great Character and if you get her early she can be as much as 2.5 million XP ahead of Imoen. If i Go for Nalia i skip Imoen.

Neither Imoen nor Nalia can chug Potions of Hill Giant Strength. They can only use the REd Potion of Strength that sets STR to 18 - no %. HIll Giant STR is for Fighters only.

But they can use the STR lvl 2 spell that last for 1/turn/lvl and sets STR to 18/75. A great spell Early on. I like to cast STR on some beefy Summons too. Nalia and Imoen both has little use for STR unless you plan specifically for it.

[Knight]

Originally posted by Zotliatlicor:

It is entirely possible to have Nalia as Sole Thief throughout the game. A bit of work, and dependanat on some specific Items, but doable.

Nalia is a great Character and if you get her early she can be as much as 2.5 million XP ahead of Imoen. If i Go for Nalia i skip Imoen.

Neither Imoen nor Nalia can chug Potions of Hill Giant Strength. They can only use the REd Potion of Strength that sets STR to 18 - no %. HIll Giant STR is for Fighters only.

But they can use the STR lvl 2 spell that last for 1/turn/lvl and sets STR to 18/75. A great spell Early on. I like to cast STR on some beefy Summons too. Nalia and Imoen both has little use for STR unless you plan specifically for it.

Oh yeah.. you're right. They can equip those belts of str, you can get them as early as ribald's establishment (very early!)

[Zotliatlicor]

Just a quick shortlist of how to have Nalia as Only Thief in a quick and effective way (or maybe not so 'quick', but how i prefer it).

Solo Irenicus with Imoen, send yoshimo off then take Minsc and Jaheira just before you exit, and send them off. If you do this Jaheira will wait by the Harpers. Exit Dungeon with a lot more XP. Save all scrolls and load them onto Minsc and Yoshimo.

Go grab Nalia quickly and solo most of the City Run & fetch errands with just her. Get back all scrolls and give Nalia as many Scrolls as you can, to gain levels just by you and Her. When she leaves for her keep (if she does) just follow her and get her back.

Assmble the Gold for Thieves Guild side quickly, but do Thieves Guild Quest first so you get the items.

Go get Valgyar once you have some more levels on Nalia, then Prep for the Planar Sphere. Have some ways to deal with both Golems and Demons. If you play with Valgya (as i do), go get the Katana, it is easy even on Insane / LOB.

Assemble the Party now that you are some levels higher. After Planar Sphere deliver Gold to Thieves for access. And you are set: Here are the Thieves Items Nalia needs / uses:

Mercykiller Ring : Equipped Abilities:
• Move Silently: +20%
• Hide In Shadows: +20%
• Set Traps: +20%
• Waukeen's Promenade (Adventurer's Mart) - Sold by Deidre
- this might not even be that useful or needed, but i always just get it.

Ring of Danger Sense: Equipped Abilities:
• Find Traps: +25%
• Planar Sphere (Level 3) - Found in container

Ring of Lock Picks: Equipped Abilities:
• Pick Locks: +25%
How Obtained:
• Shadow Thief Guildhall - Loot from thief who wants to assassinate Aran Linvail (f you side with Shadow Thieves)
• Shadow Thief Guildhall - Loot from Dedral (if you side with Bodhi)


There are also Gloves Of Pickpocketing, but those do not matter. If a chest does not open with 85 % you try to bash it. If you cant, you cast Knock on it. This only applies to a very few select Chests in the entire Game.

Nalia can disable all traps in the game with ring of Danger Sense, so this is the one she has on all the time travelling. and untill you get it, well, most traps does not require much for disabling. Most traps disable at 60 %. And you can try again and again.


So, in short: Get Nalia High Level, get the Rings, and you have a thief.

[konstantynopolitaneczka]

According to the devs, Imoen was meant to die in captivity. When they found she was the most popular character from the first game, they changed their mind.

any source of this? Sounds interesting

[Včelí medvídek]

Originally posted by konstantynopolitaneczka:

According to the devs, Imoen was meant to die in captivity. When they found she was the most popular character from the first game, they changed their mind.

any source of this? Sounds interesting

It is interesting reading but by quotes of game designer and lead writer David Gaider (see discussion below), it seems to be not the true, just one of Ideas that floated around but in real was never considered. Imoen was not supposed to rejoin party either, but to be turned into Ravager by Irenicus and unleash on Suldanesselar

https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/jmw2z0/what_was_the_true_original_plan_about_imoen_i/

[☻]

I find that using them both can be a great combo depending on who your player character is. Having two mages that can use short bows with great stats and some thief skills is always fun and allows you to swap gear among them so good gear isn't wasted. There is plenty of great mage and thief equipment throughout the game. It really just depends on your party configuration.

[ReoHays]

Plus in TOB they become sisters

[konstantynopolitaneczka]

Originally posted by Včelí medvídek:

Originally posted by konstantynopolitaneczka:

any source of this? Sounds interesting

It is interesting reading but by quotes of game designer and lead writer David Gaider (see discussion below), it seems to be not the true, just one of Ideas that floated around but in real was never considered. Imoen was not supposed to rejoin party either, but to be turned into Ravager by Irenicus and unleash on Suldanesselar

https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/jmw2z0/what_was_the_true_original_plan_about_imoen_i/

thanks, now I have to spend my evening diving into the rabbit hole