Are Beamdog still maintaining this game?

[Default]

I'm just wondering for my own interest, since the "Ranger Stronghold bug" which has apparently been in the game for 10 years just hit me in EE, and I had to edit the console to fix it, despite multiple people pointing out how it can be fixed in scripting.

Are Beamdog just defunct now?

[Captain Pentium]

They're probably off developing something else or trying to obtain rights to another orphaned classic by now.

[red255]

they have moved on to other projects by now, pretty sure.

doesn't make them defunct per se, but I don't believe they are devoting resources to bug fixing this game at this point.

[Default]

That feels pretty rancorous when they didn't fix twenty year old bugs to start with.

Poor show, says me. But... still... better than nothing.

[red255]

googling the ranger stronghold bug, it just says you missed delon's spawn?

just spawn him with the console. I needed to spawn terminel with jahiera's romance.

didn't trigger on its own for whatever reason. gave up waiting. maybe I missed him somewhere.

haven't exactly proved its a bug, but if you are just waiting for delon to spawn. just spawn him in.

also what Operating system are you on?

[Default]

Originally posted by red255:

googling the ranger stronghold bug, it just says...

Yeah, it's not quite that simple unfortunately. There was a solution to it, which someone had tracked, and appears to have worked, but a sequence-breaking bug that old really should have been fixed.

It isn't that Delon doesn't spawn in. It's one of several problems - he may have spawned on a map and I left before even knowing he'd spawned OR he may never have spawned, but the script records him as spawned. That starts a timer which the player isn't aware of, because... Delon never interacted with them.

When the timer expires, the quest records itself as failed by reference to Global Variables, without the player ever finding that out until they next try to go to their stronghold and it's locked off, or talk to people in the town who are all angry at you for not doing something you were never told to do.

It's a total sequence breaker. Not fail state for the game, because you don't REALLY need a stronghold... but as bad as it gets without being formally game breaking.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Default:

That feels pretty rancorous when they didn't fix twenty year old bugs to start with.

Just skim over the v2 series patch notes: --> http://files.beamdog.com

They have been overwhelmed with the maintenance requirements due to the sheer number & impact of the changes, which have made it necessary to replace/rewrite more and more as to fight regression and side-effects. The original Infinity Engine games are a mess. An enhanced edition with a prolonged maintenance cycle is not a long-term business model.

[Default]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

They have been overwhelmed with the maintenance requirements due to the sheer number & impact of the changes, which have made it necessary to replace/rewrite more and more as to fight regression and side-effects. The original Infinity Engine games are a mess. An enhanced edition with a prolonged maintenance cycle is not a long-term business model.

I disagree with this position for several reasons:
1. In respect of this issue, it was a bug in vanilla which has been identified by the community and numerous methods (including scripting changes) have been proposed (and adopted, in some mods).

2. In respect of this issue, it is not a maintenance issue - it ought to have been fixed prior to launch, if you're going to sell it advertising:
"Enhanced for Modern Platforms
Hundreds of bug fixes and improvements to the original game."

3. If you're going to take an old game and try and scrape money from its bones, I feel that your responsibility for 'maintaining' it for modern systems (and fixing bugs which have become known in the years after its release) is significant - that's literally all you're selling after all... it is the thing people are buying.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by Default:

I disagree with this position for several reasons:

That is not going to lead anywhere.

The initial enhanced edition of the second game is like 10 years old meanwhile. Its software development life cycle should have ended long ago, since trying to keep alive the games after another 10 years is not a viable business model. Continued bug-fix updates would not boost the sales numbers.

Also, there is a major difference between making it run on "modern systems" and fixing allegedly known bugs. And with regard to bugs in the original games, it doesn't matter at all whether they may be "known" or may have been discussed somewhere. All that matters is whether Beamdog is aware of an issue and that someone has reported a bug to Beamdog, e.g. via their bug tracker.

[Default]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

The initial enhanced edition of the second game is like 10 years old.

Wow, yeah... you're right, 2013. In my mind it was more recent than that. That certainly alters my expectation for ongoing support; true.

I still feel like known bugs ought to have been fixed at the time since that was their whole pitch for buying this version... but I fixed it with console, so whatever.

[Trouser_Dune_Worm]

They patched this game like two years ago with "known bugs we are working on" and there was never again a patch

[Default]

Originally posted by Trouser_Dune_Worm:

They patched this game like two years ago with "known bugs we are working on" and there was never again a patch

It definitely feels abandoned... and I would have thought having someone in the office fixing things where the community has already (it seems) scripted the answer, so they can just import it (with permission, ideally) would be good? But... apparently not.

Anyway, and selfishly, I've moved on! The Underdark waits for no hamster!

[Hopper]

I dunno if Beamdog are still updating these games, but I do know it always takes them a loooong time to fix things.

I always wonder what takes them so long, because a half-decent modder could probably find a fix or workaround for the Delon bug in an hour or so.

Maybe they're just not allowed to edit Delon... I've read they're pretty limited in what they can do to original content.

[Default]

Originally posted by Hopper:

Maybe they're just not allowed to edit Delon... I've read they're pretty limited in what they can do to original content.

Fixing Delon wouldn't change the way the NPC functions in the game at all. The problem, if I understand it correctly, is that the code:
(a) directs a timer to start when it spawns Delon on any map, whether or not the MainChar speaks to him, which runs out and blocks the main character from the stronghold; and
(b) if it tries to spawn Delon in Umar Hills, looks for two inputs with the same name and then flags the timer as expired.

Both matters, to my knowledge, are simply coding mistakes... and the ranger stronghold is weak enough without battling bugs over it haha.

[Hopper]

That's all handled in the scripts and is very easy to change. Here's an example of how a timer would work.

IF
InParty(Myself)
AreaCheck("AR0400") // Slums
!Global("TalkedToDelon","GLOBAL",1)
!Global("TalkedToLloyd","GLOBAL",1)
Global("MinscWillTalk","LOCALS",0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("MinscWillTalk","LOCALS",1)
SetGlobalTimer("MinscDelon","GLOBAL",SIX_DAYS)
END

Deleting or increasing that last response line would remove or increase the time limit.

According to the scripts, there's 3 situations where Delon can randomly spawn, but the problem seems to be that he spawns off-screen and moves slowly... So making him spawn right next to you and forcing dialog might work better.

[Default]

Originally posted by Hopper:

That's all handled in the scripts and is very easy to change.

Aye - I've observed that (though without the code spelled out).

The ease of its rectification, and the known nature of the bug, is part of the reason for my informal censure, here, of Beamdog.