I cheesed a lich, how was I SUPPOSED to do it?

[TheBlueFox]

I defeated a lich by using Thief traps, but I'm curious, how was I supposed to kill it? Because I want to get better at magic use in this game.

When the fight broke out, he used a contingency to get stoneskin, mantles, and some protections up. I'm not SUPER familiar with spell graphics, so I don't know exactly what he had, I'm working on recognizing spells still.

So I tried to use Spell thrust and Breach, but it didn't seem to land. I think spell mantles were absorbing the thrusts and breaches, but how do I get rid of Mantles?

He had Globe of invulnerability, so I don't think I could just bombard him with spells and burn his mantle levels.

So how do I break through the mantle, to hit him with breach, to break through the protections?

[nax710]

all liches immune to spell of level five or lower naturally. plus, if spell trap and spell shield is activated, your spell is useless. i think that's why your spell does nothing. and yes, it's really limited to break these kind of combo, it feels not fair so i don't really like it.

[TheBlueFox]

I know that there are several ways to kinda... murder liches.

I've heard of the "Use a protection from magic scroll ON a lich to make him immune to his own buffs" tactic, but I'm mostly curious on how like... the step by step of how like a honorable party you're supposed to take them out.

Granted I only had level 5 and SOME 6 spells at the time, so my options were limited.

[TheBlueFox]

So I looked up the "Shade Lich" which is the one I fought.

It has immunity to spell levels 1-5... so why does it cast globe of invulnerability? Globe only protects from levels 1-4... And it already has it just by being a shade lich!

Anyways, with immunity to spell levels 1-5 that means Breach won't even work on it, neither will spell thrust, or dispel/remove magic...

This means I can't remove it's protections... so I have to just outlast it.

I guess this means slapping on Death ward (for wail of the banshee and finger of death), Fire resist (For sunfire), and Protection from School (Necromancy) for Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting. Gotta use True Sight to get rid of Mislead, and then I guess you just haste, bless, draw upon holy might/strength pot and go to town on him with a magic weapon?

[aathimar]

Protection from undead scroll. He can't see you now. Jut wait untill his protections wear off.

"I've heard of the "Use a protection from magic scroll ON a lich to make him immune to his own buffs" tactic, but I'm mostly curious on how like... the step by step of how like a honorable party you're supposed to take them out."
1. There are only 2 protection from magic scrolls in this game and belive me you'll find better uses for it.
2. What do you mean by "honorable party" ? Taking all his damage in the face and survive?) If you have problems with lich you are clearly underlevelled for him (common thing in BG series). Once you hit 15-16 lvl with your priest you'll destroy lich by undead turning through all his protections.

[nax710]

Originally posted by aathimar:

Protection from undead scroll. He can't see you now. Jut wait untill his protections wear off.

"I've heard of the "Use a protection from magic scroll ON a lich to make him immune to his own buffs" tactic, but I'm mostly curious on how like... the step by step of how like a honorable party you're supposed to take them out."
1. There are only 2 protection from magic scrolls in this game and belive me you'll find better uses for it.
2. What do you mean by "honorable party" ? Taking all his damage in the face and survive?) If you have problems with lich you are clearly underlevelled for him (common thing in BG series). Once you hit 15-16 lvl with your priest you'll destroy lich by undead turning through all his protections.

useing a protection scroll like that feels like a cheat or something. that's what Fox says i think. i heard it doesn't work EE anyway

[Wicket W. Warrick]

When a man with a pistol meets a man with a rifle, you said, the man with a pistol's a dead man.
In BG pistol and guns are spells. You can't defeat through spells or brute force an enemy that has so much stronger spells than you.
Since it isn't part of the main story you can skip it and come later or not come at all. Or use some strategy that you consider "cheesy", considering that also the programmer used some cheesy strategy against you in designing this encounter.

[aathimar]

Originally posted by nax710:

useing a protection scroll like that feels like a cheat or something. that's what Fox says i think. i heard it doesn't work EE anyway

1. It works in EE on every undead except that demilich with human model from Neera's quest.

2. This item is implimented in game by devs and works as intended. So can't agree on that.
Is stoneskin cheat against warriors? They literaly can't do anything to you.
Is wail of banshi or finger of death cheat against dragons? Those spells make one of the hardest battles in game easy walk.

[nax710]

Originally posted by aathimar:

Originally posted by nax710:

useing a protection scroll like that feels like a cheat or something. that's what Fox says i think. i heard it doesn't work EE anyway

1. It works in EE on every undead except that demilich with human model from Neera's quest.

2. This item is implimented in game by devs and works as intended. So can't agree on that.
Is stoneskin cheat against warriors? They literaly can't do anything to you.
Is wail of banshi or finger of death cheat against dragons? Those spells make one of the hardest battles in game easy walk.

it's different from them. using a protection scroll on an "enemy" to remove its shields feels like kind of bug.

[TheBlueFox]

When I say honorable I mostly mean "typical" or expected.

For example the way I beat him was I put down six thief traps which bypass almost all protection spells. He triggered them and I ran away when he buffed himself.

I then took a nap outside his room for 8 hours and put down six more. Lured him into them and he died. I took 0 total damage.

That was not "honorable" because it's not really intended to take an 8 hour nap mid boss fight... friggin funny though.

I did it at like... the start of chapter 2 though so yes I was under leveled, but I need to learn how to use magic better so I figured I'd ask.

Like I know the way to use magic on dragons is to use breach, spell thrust, greater malison, and then feeblemind. And once feeblemind hits the dragon is too stupid to fight back

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

When I say honorable I mostly mean "typical" or expected.

The only way to confront him and fight with magic and strength is to be of much higher level, and cast 2 full spellbooks before he (it?) can do anything, then go melee with warrior to finish him.
But when choosing to be more "honorable", you should think how "honorable" was who designed this encounter almost at the beginning of the game. I don't think that using some thief ability is so cheesy....

[philos3]

There are a number of items that will work well on lichs. Easiest to obtain is "Azureedge" from Bernard in the Copper Coronet (cheaper to buy it after completing the Hendak quest IIRC). I have often "one-shot" a lich with it (including Kangaxx while in lich form) and put countless vampires down. Even if it does no damage the lich must save every time it is hit and will do so if they have Absolute Immunity running. I give it Minsc (I give him an ax proficiency just for this) let him drink a haste potion and he will get at least 2 hits a round often 3 or 4.

Next item is Daystar a +2 longsword that has additional pluses versus undead. It has the special ability of the wielder casting the 6th or 7th level cleric spell Sunray once per day. EE nerfed it damage wise, it use to do about 1000 damage in original BG2, but now does around 60 to 80 IIRC. But when Sunray is cast it will still bypass any defensive buffs and more importantly causes spell casting failure. The trick in acquiring it is defeating a lich however.

Carsomyr was made to fight lichs (well pretty much any evil opponent really). It grants 50% magic resistance which does stack with other amulets and rings that do the same. It casts dispel magic on target at level 30 so it each hit will strip defensive buffs. But you need to defeat a very tough opponent to get it.

One easy method to beat lichs, some call it cheese but I think it is a valid ploy, it to wait out the defensive buffs. Start the encounter, let the lich fire off all of its automatic spell triggers, contingencies, etc. and start casting its first spell (9 times out of 10 it will be time stop). move back out of sight or to the next room. Wait about 5 or 6 rounds, just before you go back in, have one of your party cast True Sight which will eliminate any Mislead or Improved Invisibility spells. Most of its defensive buffs will have run out, most importantly the protection from magic weapons and absolute immunity. Have your mage(s) cast Pierce Magic and Breach spells, they will strip any remaining protections. Hacking it down is now much easier.

[Hamish]

the best cheese on all spell casters is Sir Keldorn's dispel magic ability. It clears just about everything from everyone simply because it works at twice Keldorn's level. so if he is level 15, it is a level 30 dispel.

[philos3]

Originally posted by Hamish:

the best cheese on all spell casters is Sir Keldorn's dispel magic ability. It clears just about everything from everyone simply because it works at twice Keldorn's level. so if he is level 15, it is a level 30 dispel.

Not to mention Keldorn's True Sight special ability for eliminating illusion spell defensive buffs.

[fmalfeas]

You asked why he cast Globe of Invulnerablity?

It's because it's an area defence *around* him that if you use something like an Inquisitor dispel magic will force the dispel to take out it instead of the real defensive buffs.

This makes it much harder to strip away his defenses quickly.

[The Great Cornholio]

theres a Mace of Disruption - kinda hidden in an important story quest dungeon - you can enhance it at the blacksmith in the Docks with illithium from a different quest

the improved version instakills liches through all their spell protections

there's like one it doesnt work on