Is Breach not removing Protection from Magical Weapons anymore?

[wendigo211]

As the topic line mentions, I've noticed this in a few fights against liches. I either have to out wait the effect or use dispel magic if I have Keldorn in the party.

[Kaia]

Dear Wendigo,

Breach being a lvl 5 spell, it does not affect liches. You have to take into account undocumented (as far as i know) monster immunities in BG;

Lich. 5 and lower
Demi lich. 9 (which by the way does not make them immune to magic since they get hit by minute meteors and Energy blades)

For other monsters, it usually is (more) self-evident which monster resists what.
ie: fire elementals resisting fire. Undead resisting mind spells

[Tanaka Taikikku]

@ Kaia

Breach ignores spellresistance & spellimmunity, always has. I comfirmed it just now on "lich-in-a-wall" breached his mantle no problem.

@ Wendigo

Did your liches have some kind of invisibility spell triggered? The psuedo-invisibility from impr. invis, shadowdoor etc stops you from using breach. They usually cast something of the sorts in their script which means you have to purge it somehow before targeting. Dispel is AoE and obviously doesn't care about that.

Rather my question is; do you get the line "combad protection spells removed" line in a dialogue window as per casting it?

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Airen01:

Did your liches have some kind of invisibility spell triggered? The psuedo-invisibility from impr. invis, shadowdoor etc stops you from using breach. They usually cast something of the sorts in their script which means you have to purge it somehow before targeting. Dispel is AoE and obviously doesn't care about that.

I took care of that with True Sight.

Rather my question is; do you get the line "combad protection spells removed" line in a dialogue window as per casting it?

I get the "Spell Protections Removed" line, but not a "Combat Protections Dispelled" line.

[Zehk Naerun]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Originally posted by Airen01:

Did your liches have some kind of invisibility spell triggered? The psuedo-invisibility from impr. invis, shadowdoor etc stops you from using breach. They usually cast something of the sorts in their script which means you have to purge it somehow before targeting. Dispel is AoE and obviously doesn't care about that.

I took care of that with True Sight.

Rather my question is; do you get the line "combad protection spells removed" line in a dialogue window as per casting it?

I get the "Spell Protections Removed" line, but not a "Combat Protections Dispelled" line.

Now I may be wrong, but if your lich is casting Glode of Invulnerability, Breach will only dispell that. To circumvent this, the sixth level spell Pierce Magic can remove that as well as lower its magic resistance.

If that is wrong, you can still use that strategy to defeat higher level mages.

[Jack]

The problem is likely Spell Trap - scroll up and find what the lich cast. Spell Trap absorbs spells, including Breach. The way to remove it is with Ruby Ray of Reversal.

[Tanaka Taikikku]

@Zekk

Globe doesn't prevent breach, first and foremost it caps out on lvl 4 spells, secondly breach actually ignores all* spell protections with the exception of being untargetable (shimmering invisibility, as per the spell impr. invis) .

*Spell trap is the exception here, as Jack pointed out.

@wendigo
if you got the X removed line, that means breach worked. Sorry for asking a possibly stupid question, but what weaponry did you use? Liches have some innate weapon immunities regardless of spells cast. Kangaxx for instance needs +3 or better for phase 1 and +4 or better for phase two.

[wendigo211]

I'm using weaponry like: Carsomyr, Celestial Fury, Mace of Disruption+1 (+3 Vs. Undead) and Blackblood +3.

I've had the problem against I suppose 5 Liches. I've generally gotten past them either using Keldorn's dispel, by beating the crap out of them before they get hostile, using a Scroll of Protection Against Undead, or in one case by polymorphing into a Mustard Jelly, waiting until the Lich ran out of spells and then unmorphing to beat the crap out of it. I noticed a couple of them used Spell Trap, but not all of them had the spell.

Against Kangaxx the demilich I used traps+Ring of the Ram (to knock him into the traps) to take him out. It's a shame you can't pickpocket him anymore for the second ring.

[Tanaka Taikikku]

In that case you should be totally fine.

Are you perhaps playing with any mods installed? In vanilla you shouldn't have that problem. I just comfirmed it with the lich in bridge and temple district, breach worked fine (although none of them used spell trap).

I used a quarterstaff+3 & blackblood +3

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Airen01:

In that case you should be totally fine.

Are you perhaps playing with any mods installed? In vanilla you shouldn't have that problem. I just comfirmed it with the lich in bridge and temple district, breach worked fine (although none of them used spell trap).

I used a quarterstaff+3 & blackblood +3

I think it might be because I'm playing on Insane difficulty, whereas in the past I played on Core Rules. Insane difficulty makes some of the enemies tougher, so it might have improved the lich spellbooks.

[Tanaka Taikikku]

Hmm, I've played the non-steam version on insane without encountering that behaviour from lich but it could very well be as you say. It would be nice to hear from devs if they have anything to add on this. If it isn't intended then it should be bug reported I guess

Edit: I just fought the imprisoned lich in the underdark, he absorbed breach with his scripted spell trap.

[Teralitha]

For those liches in town tombs, the easiest way to beat them even at low level is to leave the room when they start casting stuff at you. They use up the spell but dont hit anything. Wait a few seconds, then re-enter the room. They start casting, you leave again. Rinse and repeat until they use up all their most powerful spells and also wait a bit longer for their protection buffs to wear off. Then.. simply beat them to death.

[Tanaka Taikikku]

@Teralitha

I'd concider that method a tad bit to much cheese. I tend to stay away from the in-out and scrolls of protecion from undead strats

[Teralitha]

I dunno... I consider it clever.

[Jack]

Originally posted by Teralitha:

I dunno... I consider it clever.

If the enemy's response was clever, I'd agree. But if a lich just sits there while getting punched because of a PoU scroll, or a dragon ignores a thief surrounding him with traps, then it's cheesy.

[wendigo211]

Okay something weird does seem to be going on. I just did the Twisted Rune Fight and here's how the fight with the lich Shandalar went down:

Shandalar: Spell Trigger: Fireshield (Red), Stoneskin, Mislead
Imoen: True Seeing dispels Mislead
Imoen: Breach vs. Shandalar: Spell and Combat Protections dispelled
Keldorn: Hits Shandalar for 28 points of damage with Carsomyr (dispel on hit), spellcasting disrupted
Shandalar: Contingency: Protection from Magical Weapons
Imoen: Breach vs. Shandalar (nothing happens) (I get a Shandalar: Magic Resistance message)
My main (Kensai/Mage): Ruby Ray of Reversal Vs. Shandalar (nothing happens)
Imoen: Breach vs. Shandalar (nothing happens)
Shandalar: Sunfire
Keldorn: Dispel vs. Shandalar (Protection from Magical Weapons finally drops)
My main and Keldorn beat him to death

I triple checked the combat log and he never cast any spell defenses or any other spells than the ones I listed.