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Emotion Hoplessness works on a lot of non-human monsters too. If i play a Sorceror it is my first lvl 4 pick (most take stoneskin but i choose that later)
Yeah... If you can spare slots from Stoneskin for Emotion and Malison or play Sorcerer it does sound very effective. Don't like Chaos or Confusion too much, because in some areas it may cause innocent casualties, but it should work wonders on casters together with malison though.
Tbh I have very minimalist and practical approach to offensive arcane spells.
Spellbook Lvl 1 - it will be either humble Magic Missile that counters mirror images and causes severe chance of casting interrupt, chromatic orb for death or glory attack, blindness or spook.
Lvl 2 - will be either interrupting Melf or blinding Glitterdust.
Lvl 3 -Slow, eventually Hold Person.
Lvl 4 - Malison, from this moment I start going from this moment more into defensive and ward removing magic, so Stoneskin, Above lvl 4 I'm going for stuff like Breach, Lower Resistance, Pierce Magic, True Sight, Warding Whip, Ruby Ray, Pierce Shield, Spellstrike... Nothing fancy in general.
1: Magic Missile / Chromatic Orb
2: Melfs Acid Arrow
3: Skulltrap
4: None (defense and diablers but "sometimes" Ice Storm)
5: Sunfire
6: Death Fog
7: Delayed Blast Fireball
8: Abidalzim Horrid Wilting
9: Meteor Swarm
Else i use most if not all of the Hold, Stun and Blind versions of spells. Rest is Spell removers and Immunities and Self Buffers.
Secondly, Web is less efficient for Spiders so your comment is wrong, obviously particularly for Cloakwood area.
Thirdly entangle is too slow to cast, this making it mostly always pointless.
20 years? Perhaps you could try again?
I didn't say that is unuseful for everyone, I just said that is completely unuseful for me. And no, I will not give a try, since I used it, I completely know how it works, and I perfectly know the tactic that I want to use. And that doesn't include grease. At all.
I prefer to give mage other spells, as someone else already told, while entagle go to druids or rangers, and subistitute less useful spells. Anyway I don't use entangle in cloackwood where I manage that easy fights with other tactic, but I rarely use it at all.
I limited also the use of web because it works mostly with ranged attack tactic or with melee fighters with freedom, that is annoying for other reasons. I stopped this way of playing a lot of walkthroughs ago because less funny that other tactic. In 99% of the few fights where I want to use web I actually can use it, in the 1% (that is 1-2 combat in all the game) where I would but I can't, I manage somehow differently and more efficently.
Anyway the point is that while web is a strong spell and worth having for anyone, grease is much less useful, so any player should think before take it or not.
But also on your side stop think all your posts are fully valid and can't be questioned sometimes and on some points, it can happens to bests.
You don't use Grease since 20 years, fine but:
- When Spiders are involved it's more efficient than Web or Entangle you was highlighting.
- Moreover, no matter how, it's a very different usage for close range. To clarify, when your close range are already positioned and won't need move a lot, the Grease area can be widely different than Web area, up to annoy much more enemies moving a lot or having to move a lot more.
For the argument it was just your usages, so you didn't use your usages as advices? Common you are playing on words.
For arguing you can ignore Grease, pretty sure Web can be ignored too so the argument is weak, it's not meaning it's pointless nor that it hasn't use cases better or with different utility than Web.
I don't think that, but that wasn't the case. In all your messages you directly on indirectly say that other people are wrong. If you finish discussing with anyone there should be something in your answer that is annoying. You're an intelligent person, try to think of it.
Obviously is more efficient than web, since web doesn't work at all. But for me (for how I play) grease is still not worth the waste of other 1st level spell, that are more useful. Anyway this depends on the tactic, it is valid for me, I can't speak for other players.
This issue about other players playing with words is something you often point out. That's not the case.
There are some things that are valid for everyone, other depends on game personal tactic. I gave and advice based on my experience, but I don't speak for other's player tactic. Differently from you.
I don't think that, and forum communities generally agree on this position. Web is a must have spell. It completely disables the enemy, there is also a penalties on saving throw, so is almost an istant win spell. Grease (or entagle) have many more drawbacks but the fact that it doesnt disable the opponent limits it usage at some specific tactics, mostly with ranged weapon. And a few usages agains spiders, that anyone can easily deal in some other way, are not necessary worth the use. Anyway it still depends on the tactic used.
Hmm... Derailment. Did op manage to debuff and beat those Harpers already? I already lost track if those were supposed to be Galvarey's minions or Revianne's.
One free level 2 slot, I tend pick Stinking Cloud not Web. One free level 1 slot, I pick Sleep until later then I pick Grease. But yeah that's more BG1 perspective where there's not much enemy long range, not that many casters, and casters are often managed by long range.
But ok it's also possible that when carefully compared with other spells in various use cases, Grease is just one more of those pointless fake spells of D&D.
I quote that D&D implementation is a bit absurd, how it was designed in DAO was making a lot more sense.
Umm, yeah I think this discussion has gotten derailed. It was originally supposed to help OP with the Harper Ambush (I am guessing they mean the one with Revienne, but possibly the later one with Dermin.) Could be Galvarey's crew though.
At the risk of keeping the BG1 discussion alive but because sword and phase spiders can be found in a few places in BG2 I would like to offer the following comments. All the spiders, (except sword spiders) to include the tiny ones, are venomous. Phase spiders may seem more so but it is because they have more hit dice and therefore a better chance to hit you. The poison effect seems to do the same amount of damage every few seconds whether it is a phase spider, wraith spider, huge, etc. Not mention their habit of popping into the back of party in a blink.
I actually consider sword spiders just as bad as the phase spiders because they are naturally hasted and move so quick. I cannot begin to guess how many shots per round they get in. They have more hit dice (or seems like it) than any of the other arachnids. My usually tactic throughout the game is to scout ahead with a party member who is invisible. If I see a batch of spiders. I throw in a cloudkill. It always wipes out most of them. But I have seen sword spiders survive (with a saving throw) the cloudkill more than once. Which makes me believe they might have the most hit dice (points) of the arachnids.
By the time you are in BG2 Stinking Cloud and Horror are not likely to help much in the Harper fight. One or two (if you're lucky might fail their save). Web however will immobilize many of the Harpers (may be all with a bit of luck) but most importantly the missile users and spellcasters. They tend to stand in one spot and even if they make one save they have to do it every round.
But the fight winning spell, as has been mentioned by others, for this fight (and many others as well) is Insect Plague by Jaheira. I recommend casting it at one of the non-spell casting Harpers near a spell caster. My reason for this is in case the spell caster has some sort of spell turning defense up, you don't want it coming back you. The plague will automatically spread to all enemies within its radius there is no save for that effect. It totally disables any spell casting (100% failure). It also can cause panic among any being affected.
We all have different styles so I am not criticizing. But I would like to point out that in BG2, opponents in the tougher fights will probably be able to save against Stinking Cloud and Horror. Stinking Cloud also can cause a problem if I want close on the enemy and melee, it could knock out my party member as well. If I may make a recommendation, I wouldn't spend a 2nd level slot on Horror. The Wand of Fear does the same thing and can be used by a cleric or druid as well as a mage or bard. There are several of these wands in the game and they can be recharged.
My preference in BG2 for 2nd level mage spells is Invisibility, Mirror Image, Remove Fear, Web, Melf's Acid Arrow. But that fits my style.
Mages are there to disable the enemy side and you can run from BG1 to ToB with this mindset. Of course you may have to apapt or reload sometimes, but it is quite solid. I call this Nymph playstyle.
For Grease being a fake junk spell or not I don't care, I don't like D&D 2e.