It's hard finish ToB

[Dorok]

The tittle seems suggest the play difficulty, but it's referring to have hard time to find motivation to continue play the game.

I don't know if it's me, loosing interest in combats, and exhausted in searching what buff and spells to use for each combat, by blind tries and tedious log check. I also suspect it's because I don't like D&D 2e at late levels.

Or if it's really because of game content:
- A lot too many combats, sometimes it feels like chains of fillers.
- Very linear, no real choices of exploration to do.
- All outdoor areas feel tiny, mostly empty, like pale fillers.
- Past first town dungeons feel uninteresting.
- The amount of drops became totally weird because now it's mostly magic stuff, and it's a boredom to bother because there's no more reason to bother on money, and it's always magic junk you don't need. And still you need check the boredom in case there's one good drop.
- It's like it's dead for companions past Hexxat last quest, nothing happens. But I haven't the most developed companions in party.
- Party development seems on a rail.
- Looking on some party change is looking like boredom and a lot too late instead of a fun change.

This let the main story I don't remind much and it's not that awful; to see end summarize for each companion, see last combats, I wonder if it's what I remind.

[LukanGamer]

-hea BG1 probably still wins out easily + narrative and being last makes sense
-its not about exploration any more especially with narrative so ... that's a obvious given..
-disagree
-to little info and they were fine enough especially since they had more then less in many cases
-learn to look at pics... while limited most the ""magic"" weapons you are reffering to are likely just the +weapons which ya enemies kind of need them ... and they have clear tell and same looks, and not weird.
-"i like+have hexxat" 1st issue and showing there :D and more importantly.. "But I haven't the most developed companions in party."
-I mean sort of always was?? not a huge amount you can do on this old rule set, you get more options then before at near max level and more spells though so there that.. (choose ability thing and obviously way more spells though I liked BG1s like many low level since that gives importance to spell usage and scrolls)
-not sure what you mean here, and ya imo by now you should have a primary group you enjoyed taking with you on the adventure from maybe even bg1 and up.. kind of the point



"exhausted in searching what buff and spells to use for each combat, by blind tries and tedious log check. I also suspect it's because I don't like D&D 2e at late levels."
->
This is very common especially if you forgot/don't care to remember (me in lot of ways)/never played original time. There are mods and cheats you can do to help it though.
Don't think of the game as too difficult ever though as there are countless exploits/easy spell abuse/etc... to point 1 the most popular mods was/is a insane++ difficulty mod that basically on max setting will end you with even 1 mistake (let alone the known quick save/load game already known for).--->
again though personally never want to or feel like remembering them or doing them any ways and do hate games that use the mechanic that rely so heavy on putting on buffs and correct passive etc... but its the rule set and old at that and some really like it especially since it can make you feel godly and laugh at even the strongest enemy have no chance due to a correct usage of them and the counters to remove them from enemy.

[Volfogg]

Hard to tell. I finished my last playthrough long ago (the one with Blade MC) already and doing another. Other than Watcher's Keep level 5 and final boss after 2nd power source nothing was giving me much problems.

[Dorok]

@LukanGamer:
I have difficulty to understand many parts of your post, need do a lot of guess.

I was comparing with SoA. Even if it hasn't real world exploration like in BG1, it's higher amount of content and openness builds much better an exploration feeling than ToB. But if you want compare ToB without SoA to BG1, for me BG1 is widely better and ToB looks more like a rushed game with not enough content to justify the lower overall quality..

It's fine you disagree, but when I look ToB outdoor area, I wonder what allow you disagree.

For dungeons, I don't understand your comment.

Sure I check picts, except that when you pick none, it's among a ton, and a few time pict change are very tiny and weird, easy to miss, didn't quote a case in ToB, but perhaps I skipped a few sepcial items. At end it's pointless boredom, the design choice was already weird since BG1, but it became garbage when most drops are magic.

Hexxat? I understand nothing of this sentence.

For buff adaptation to combat, right, perhaps a part is not enough effort to memorize, but it's more than that for like a first play, and for sure I understand some players enjoy, not sure it's more than those that are pure D&D fans and appreciate has a lite simulator of late levels with ToB.

@Volfogg:
Difficulty has a variable meaning, for me what you describe is go through the ton of combats without any pre adaptation (so often reload involved) or for just a few. But perhaps for you reload and adaptation is meaningless, or you use ton of scroll and potions to manage unexpected surprises, or you use a party that crush any combat through the whole ToB.

[Volfogg]

Not really, I just memorized entire BG2:ToB playthrough long ago. Like Draconis being weak to Ruby Ray of Reversal, Abazigal is best brought down before triggering an earthquake, Sendai having two dangerous caster decoys and an archer decoy while reinforcements pour near entrance... I know what to expect from certain named NPCs and monster species. Erratic AI is my bane though.

[Dorok]

Ouch, ok, but for sure i'll never play ToB like that. Firstly because I won't bother make the memo effort, but also because I'll auto undo memo for stuff I feel pointless to memo. The other way for me would be to replay in series, but I doubt I'll replay ToB until a very long time, not sure I'll even replay SoA.

[BlueBangkok]

I completed this game about 20 times, ToB included, and I agree on some points. Combat log and pre-buffing is definitely very tedious, courtesy of ADnD2 mostly, everything else is stellar, imho.

Filler combat is in spades in SoA and BG1 as well. So invalid argument. The entire saga has it, and lots of it.

Some locations are small, but there is the entire Watcher's Keep. With it the expansion is easily 1/2 of SoA if not more. Developers did fine job quality and quantity wise with the insane deadline they were given (1 year after SoA...).

[Dorok]

Outdoor Areas (using my current play), I would agree good enough:
- Saradush, isn't this the smallest town of the series? Ok with BG1 Halfling town. It is properly filled, the tiny size is still weird. I can agree this one despite tiny is well done and well filled.
- Watcher Keep: The problem is it's in SoA already, and for the quote I feel TosC is better. For my ToB play it probably didn't help that I played WK levels 1 to 4 and during ToB was too annoyed to have motive to finish.
- Ankhtrang, a bit less small than Saradush but less content. I can agree it's on side of those well done no matter the size.

Then outdoor crap, just to fill global map:
- North Forest: Tiny and lame, one NPC and basic shop, not much diversity in combats, too tiny to have any exploration aspect, some bridges to add some relief in the map isn't much.
- Forest of Mir: Tiny and more lame than North Forest, one NPC encounter.
- Marching mountain: Small and very linear, one NPC.
- The Oasis: Tiny, linear, repetitive, one NPC.
- Sendai Enclave outdoor: Tiny and filled only through script spawning, For NPC only one plkus other from spawns.
- Abazigal outdoor: Very tiny, one NPC.

Filler combats:
Sure, it's crap throughout the whole series, it doesn't make ToB better on that point, it's fun you think that because it's in Soa it validates the design; FYI no matter the good points of SoA it is far from being my favorite RPG.

Everything else is stelar:
Gee, I didn't quote. Companions nope, puzzling and tricks nope, exploration nope, quests mechanics nope, combats nope for me, party development nope.

Main story? Stellar looks widely exaggerated, crap compared to The Witcher 1 or Dragonfall main stories. Good stuff nothing more.

Secondary quests? Neither on writing nor on mechanics and problems solving they are stellar and from far. Too many counter examples, I skip.

But in SoA there are certainly chapters I don't consider good and that are worse than ToB, in case you wonder. If SoA is a big thing ToB isn't it's not meaning it hasn't flaws or weak points.

[haroldogiesta]

That`s why i still prefer BG1. Exploration.
SoA has less exploration but have great side content like Cult of the Eyeless, Firkraag, Planar Sphere , Shadow Dungeon, DeArnise Keep and etc
ToB and SoD suffers from the same problem of pushed linearity, but in SoD it is worse. If you advance too far on another map you can not go back to previous maps.

[Volfogg]

Yeah, SoD is very linear, at least in ToB you have choice which enclave you want to tackle and when and how far you want to tackle Watcher's Keep. Both are more of a finale to their respective games rather than fully separate stories. At least they provide some challenge.

As a side note, I tend to keep stacks of valuable gems and aquamarine for Khalid in SoD, just so I have things going a little easier once vault keeper Ophyllis does the thing. Not hard to memorize expansion. Just remember to order Madele to make amends, save sick in camp, straight refuse Torsin's poison and bet your own soul for Thrix. Then it's got tolerable ending.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by haroldogiesta:

That`s why i still prefer BG1. Exploration.
SoA has less exploration but have great side content like Cult of the Eyeless, Firkraag, Planar Sphere , Shadow Dungeon, DeArnise Keep and etc
ToB and SoD suffers from the same problem of pushed linearity, but in SoD it is worse. If you advance too far on another map you can not go back to previous maps.

In fact SoA has no world exploration.

But it's not just a matter of quality, because SoA has its share of weak aspects, but it's a matter of the amount of stuff to do inside a huge openness, sub quests, large quests, tiny quests, events, stuff to find, NPC and talks, information to discover, parts to discover, new quests to discover, more.

And when SoA trap the player it's a brutal quality decrease, planar sphere is tedious, The island before Asylum is crap, typical ToB lame filling but at least with a few secondary quests or stuff to do. Assylum is average. And so on;

ToB totally fails reproduce it because it's ridiculous amount of content.

Typical is the two enclaves, no sub quest, no special stuff to do, two poor tiny areas borderline empty, one average dungeon that had the awful bad idea to make player feel he destroy whole armies, alas not only it' a stupid idea, but it's not working, and it generates more combat pointless repetition than most parts of the whole series. I don't know for the second dungeon only started.

And that's also why no modern party rpg I know achieve reproduce that aspect of SoA. They try mimic the approach, can even reach a better overall quality, but all are still a big fail on that aspect because they have a too small amount of stuff to do in a very open context.

But again, I don't mean SoA hasn't plenty flaws.

[Dorok]

Thankfully finished ToB, well almost, I gave up on final lol, but thanks to dev for the story mode, too long combat for me. :-)

If I can't reproach dev to have done ToB in context of their time, for me ToB is still a bad BG3 sadly rushed, but sure tech evolution in video game didn't let them much choices.