I found a way to make the swashbuckler kit useful

[sick duck]

Its class abilities are added to the slayer transformation, which is odd because it doesn't work that way with the monk. What I mean is that a swashbuckler will get bonus to hit, and damage and thac0 and will retain that bonus as the slayer. So yeah, the swashbuckler can be really good even though it's still second rate at everything. You just get your swashbuckler to 6+million experience points and you will have a very strong Slayer to attack the five with. Along with all of the great thief HLAs your slayer will be wearing a helmet and at -30AC with all the equipment and swashbuckler bonus, you can cast from scrolls, set traps, and hit people very hard in melee 4 times per round multipied by improved haste and those 1/2 attack gauntlets from watcher keep. A real fighter will still do more damage especially as a kensai, archers still get cool stuff like statistic drain abilities, and any mage you can make will tank better than you. You're still quite powerful though, and you can maintain the form for a good amount of time as long as you take potions to protect from magic damage.

[Morris en 8 Bits]

yes is very powerfull, but swashbuckler can solo ToB without use the assassin transformation

[Volfogg]

Swashbuckler is already pretty powerful with off-hand +1 APR Ninja-to and that absurd AC of his. Stuff in Sendai's Enclave could barely hit my Halfling Swashbuckler (cliche as heck this combo is).

[sick duck]

What I actually said is that swashbuckler is a second rate class at best, and usually more of a third rate class. Whatever it is you read I didn't say it.

[red255]

swash is a good class to dual from. Like I've started as a swash gotten lockpick and find trap maxed out and dualed to fighter.

you lose that fighter HP for con above 16 which can be a biggie but you don't need to bring a thief anymore and can get some bonus AC and Thaco/damage.

Is it imbalanced as a kensai-> thief, god no. but it still works and doesn't have as much downtime.

[sick duck]

Yes I am in the middle of a swashbuckler dual classed at level 10 to a cleric. I cheated a bit by using mods so that it can throw daggers, gain the 1/2 attack for ** weapon points and picked the cleric of lathander. Despite my cheating the character is still nothing to write home about, but it is decent. The best thing about it is that it is a top tier cleric with all the skill it needs to handle traps and locks and detect illusions.

[malkavius77]

Pretty much every single class and kit in the game is second rate or third rate when multi classing and dual classing exists. Only ones that truly compete are sorcs and wild mages.

[sick duck]

Originally posted by malkavius77:

Pretty much every single class and kit in the game is second rate or third rate when multi classing and dual classing exists. Only ones that truly compete are sorcs and wild mages.

Well the dwarven defender becomes basically immune to all physical damage without having to resort to unreliable magics, and the archer can clone itself and pop off between 3 and 4.5 attacks per round which can either critically hit every time for 30-50 damage a hit with crit strike or drain the ♥♥♥♥ out of the enemy stats with called shot. The inquisitor just tells anything magical and sneaky to ♥♥♥♥ off. True, they aren't berserker mages and this is a game which strongly encourages defensive playstyles especially in the late part of the game due to how easily killed everyone is and how many ways there are to protect a large number of crew. I think the most special single classes by a long shot are the shadow dancer, bard/bard and the bounty hunter. They all scale really good into the millions of experience points, in the parts where most of their best qualities are at. Shadow dancer can hide anywhere and any time even without running away, can stop time for a short while and which is nice if it wants to scout, or do something with a potion or scroll or whatever, and later on can maze people. Bounty hunter is probably weak compared to that, but has some good stuff regardless. The bard gets quite good with its song at higher levels thanks to the upgrading luck bonus which caps at +3. I think my primary complaint about swashbuckler is that it isn't a very exciting class, it has no gimmick or special feature.

[Morris en 8 Bits]

swashbuckler can stop the time an use whirlwind with detonation club an detonating 2 o 3 fireballs, or use teneser transformation for X2 hp or use a sling and whirlwind an be a machinegun or use blackblade of disaster that is a lot of damage

[sick duck]

Originally posted by Valen en 8 Bits:

swashbuckler can stop the time an use whirlwind with detonation club an detonating 2 o 3 fireballs, or use teneser transformation for X2 hp or use a sling and whirlwind an be a machinegun or use blackblade of disaster that is a lot of damage

Great, but the problems are what it can't do.

[red255]

that sounds like a you issue. not an issue with the kit.

[sick duck]

Okay chief.

[red255]

we are taught in school that columbus discovered america, despite the fact
1.) vikings discovered it first hundreds of years prior
2.) there were people literally living there. HEY I DISCOVERED YOUR BACKYARD!

we are natives of this board, your discovery is basically you discovering our backyard. its not very impressive. I'm sure its impressive to you and your sponsors who didn't know. but we live here.

also please don't spread small pox.

[lemurs2]

Swash is one of the best sub classes in the game without any shenanigans.

[Morris en 8 Bits]

Originally posted by Joseph:

Originally posted by Valen en 8 Bits:

swashbuckler can stop the time an use whirlwind with detonation club an detonating 2 o 3 fireballs, or use teneser transformation for X2 hp or use a sling and whirlwind an be a machinegun or use blackblade of disaster that is a lot of damage

Great, but the problems are what it can't do.

what can't you do? man the class can do solo trone of bhaal and solo black pits in BG1 and BG2. In my opinion Swash kit is quite balanced. If you could tell me what I can't do I would be grateful

[sick duck]

Originally posted by Valen en 8 Bits:

Originally posted by Joseph:

Great, but the problems are what it can't do.

what can't you do? man the class can do solo trone of bhaal and solo black pits in BG1 and BG2. In my opinion Swash kit is quite balanced. If you could tell me what I can't do I would be grateful

It is a burden if you play it in double damage mode because until you can wear a helmet in the last 10% of the series that is throne of bhaal you are likely to get one shot killed by critical hits because no helm and not very good health points. That is 1 attack by them out of 20 attacks, which will happen to you hundreds of times before 3 million experience.