Question about leveling after dual class equivalency

[bufossil]

I am fairly new to D&D rules, but am learning slowly. I am starting to understand dual class, but I am not all the way there yet.

This is what I think is a typical sequence:

1. Raise a character to a specific level in Skill A. Let' say level 9.
2. A level 9, you click the Dual Class button for that character, and specify new Skill B.
3. All of the abilities of Skill A disappear, as you start leveling Skill B.
4. When Skill B is the same as Skill A (both level 9), the character has all benefits of both Skill A and Skill B up to whatever is normally available at level 9.

Is the above sequence accurate? If so, then what happens during level ups?

Let's take Aerie as an example. She arrives in my party with both Cleric and Mage skills. When she has a character level up, I see that she gets one or two more lower level cleric spell casting slots, and one or two lower level mage spell casting slots.

Here's my question: In the dual class process, is she going to be able to eventually cast higher level cleric spells than her current level 4 spells? Is she going to be able to eventually cast higher level mage spells than her current level 4 spells? At her last character level up, her spell levels did not increase beyond 4 - which is what it was prior to the level up.

Thank you for any assistance.

[danconnors]

If you switch at level 9 you won't be a real dual class till level of class b is 10. If your scond class is mage I'm usually able to get to level 11 by dismissing your whole party and memorising all the spell scrolls you've picked up while reaching say fighter level 10. You spend NO time as just a mage, but reach dual class fighter 10/mage 11 in just a few minutes memorizing mage spells. Don't make the mistake Anomen in BG2 made of switching to cleric at lowly level 7 as a fighter, and with the skill of spearman, which a cleric CAN'T use. Almost as dumb as Minsc who has 2 handed fighting ability, and his main weapon is a two handed sword.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

You are mixing a few concepts.

Aerie is not a dual-class character, but a multi-class character. She will continue to level both classes depending on the class experience progression table at the end of the manual.

A dual-class character stops levelling the first class and continues levelling only the second class (aka the primary class). For your example, the first class stops at level 9, and you unlock it again once you reach level 10 in the second class. Not level 9. Afterwards, the second class may get even higher.

Skills are unrelated to level. You may spend proficiency points on different skills whenever you level up. Depending on which two classes you choose, you also don't lose the skills of the primary class when you click the dual-class button, because the second class may be able to learn the same skills. However, all proficiency points you've spent on a skill before remains hidden, and you should avoid spending points on the same skill until you've unlocked the first class again. Or else you would waste skill points.

[Desert Kitsune MarlFox]

quick heads up for you there is a giant difference between dual and multi classed characters
with a dual class you start as a single class and later on add another one to your self

example fighter to cleric and from then on you no longer gain any experience or levels with fighter but then regain fighter skills and level when your second class SURPASSES the orignal class in level
example again if you dual at 7 fighter you need 8 cleric or thief or mage of what ever you are dualing to, to regain skills of your original class

however a multiclass you are both classes at the same time and level both at the same time
your example of Arie is a multi class so she levels mage and cleric at the same time

dual class is only avalible to humans

multiclass is only availible to all non human races

[danconnors]

Anomon, however has dual classed to a cleric. Those two pips he put into using a spear have been totally wasted since a cleric can't use a spear. Minsc with two pips in two handed fighting and two pips in two handed swords has wasted skills, since you can't wield 2 two handed swords.

[Desert Kitsune MarlFox]

Originally posted by danconnors:

If you switch at level 9 you won't be a real dual class till level of class b is 10. If your scond class is mage I'm usually able to get to level 11 by dismissing your whole party and memorising all the spell scrolls you've picked up while reaching say fighter level 10. You spend NO time as just a mage, but reach dual class fighter 10/mage 11 in just a few minutes memorizing mage spells. Don't make the mistake Anomen in BG2 made of switching to cleric at lowly level 7 as a fighter, and with the skill of spearman, which a cleric CAN'T use. Almost as dumb as Minsc who has 2 handed fighting ability, and his main weapon is a two handed sword.

two pips into two weapon fighting is mandatory for a ranger to take which Minsc is

also 7 fighter is just fine to dual to something as that is the earlest you can get grandmastery plus you start at 7 fighter so you can instantly dual and solo irrencuses dungeon and leave a full dual class

and Anomen having spear skill is because in the original release anomen was missing 3 pips into skills for his level and to not change how he plays or how player build him they added spear skill

[Desert Kitsune MarlFox]

Originally posted by danconnors:

Anomon, however has dual classed to a cleric. Those two pips he put into using a spear have been totally wasted since a cleric can't use a spear. Minsc with two pips in two handed fighting and two pips in two handed swords has wasted skills, since you can't wield 2 two handed swords.

the two pips into two weapon fighting is a ranger class bonus you litteraly do not spend any points to get it

that and Minsc is far better off for DPS wielding two maces

[bufossil]

Holy cow, I guess I knew FAR FAR less than I thought I did.

Thanks to everyone who responded. Back to the books!

[danconnors]

Everybody can dual class whenever they want, but I consider it to be a total waste to dual claass lower than as a level 10 fighter. That's because when I dual class it's to a fighter/berserker/mage. By dismissing my party and memorizing the spells I have picked up getting to fighter level 10, I get to mage level 11 before I'm done memorizing spells. So I spend NO time as a solo mage, and go straight to a dual class berserker/mage.

This is my opinion also, but mage spells are a lot more dangerous than cleric spells, and a mage with AC3 bracers, a +2 ring, a +4 shield, rag of the sewer, and ring of earth control can get as good an AC as any cleric. Toward the end of BG2 you can get a set of elven armor, usable by a mage. to get your AC up to AC-10 or better. When you get up to where a Melf's Magic Missile hands you 20 missiles, treated as +5 weapons, you have an extraordinary weapon.

[Desert Kitsune MarlFox]

Originally posted by danconnors:

Everybody can dual class whenever they want, but I consider it to be a total waste to dual claass lower than as a level 10 fighter. That's because when I dual class it's to a fighter/berserker/mage. By dismissing my party and memorizing the spells I have picked up getting to fighter level 10, I get to mage level 11 before I'm done memorizing spells. So I spend NO time as a solo mage, and go straight to a dual class berserker/mage.

This is my opinion also, but mage spells are a lot more dangerous than cleric spells, and a mage with AC3 bracers, a +2 ring, a +4 shield, rag of the sewer, and ring of earth control can get as good an AC as any cleric. Toward the end of BG2 you can get a set of elven armor, usable by a mage. to get your AC up to AC-10 or better. When you get up to where a Melf's Magic Missile hands you 20 missiles, treated as +5 weapons, you have an extraordinary weapon.

i'm currious what level 10 fighter gets you over a 7 fighter because you can still get grandmastery in two weaponns as you level cleric with a 7 fighter because 10 fighter just sounds like it hampers your late game mage experience cap

and yes arcane spells are more dangerous directly but cleric spells buff you to insane amounts(25 str, con and dex plus protection from fear and evil, max hit and levels converted to a fighters and the bless series of spells) and you have access to some of the best summon spells(summon skeleton, aeral servant, and the Devas) and aura spells(blade barrier, globe of blades and aura of flaming death) resulting IMO a much better solo play class expecialy when you factor in heal spells

[red255]

Originally posted by Desert Kitsune MarlFox:

i'm currious what level 10 fighter gets you over a 7 fighter because you can still get grandmastery in two weaponns as you level cleric with a 7 fighter because 10 fighter just sounds like it hampers your late game mage experience cap

Level 9 fighter gets you all the fighter bonus HP you would get if you have a kit like beserker or kensai you get an additional rage or some kensai bonuses.

you also get an additional pip to distribute at fighter 9 so you can make it to grandmastery. before dualing. whereas if you dual at 7 you couldn't put an additional pip into grandmastery until mage 10 which is functionally the same time you'd get grandmastery back but the pip could go elsewhere.

mainly its the additional fighter pip and fighter hp and extra use of rage.

More levels of fighter also improve THAC0 but thats somewhat moot as a mage would generally cast tenser's prior to engaging in melee which should provide more THAC0

[Desert Kitsune MarlFox]

Originally posted by red255:

Originally posted by Desert Kitsune MarlFox:

i'm currious what level 10 fighter gets you over a 7 fighter because you can still get grandmastery in two weaponns as you level cleric with a 7 fighter because 10 fighter just sounds like it hampers your late game mage experience cap

Level 9 fighter gets you all the fighter bonus HP you would get if you have a kit like beserker or kensai you get an additional rage or some kensai bonuses.

you also get an additional pip to distribute at fighter 9 so you can make it to grandmastery. before dualing. whereas if you dual at 7 you couldn't put an additional pip into grandmastery until mage 10 which is functionally the same time you'd get grandmastery back but the pip could go elsewhere.

mainly its the additional fighter pip and fighter hp and extra use of rage.

More levels of fighter also improve THAC0 but thats somewhat moot as a mage would generally cast tenser's prior to engaging in melee which should provide more THAC0

i suppose i only dual a stock fighter so i am not looking for an extra useage of rage or Kai and that i am not caring for the extra pip before i dual so long as i can get it after i dual

and i always dual to a cleric so Rightious Magic solves the HP and THAC0 "issue" by converting all cleric levels to fighter plus adding max hit

so i suppose that is more applicable to dualing to mage or thief rather than cleric who can just buff all those things away

[danconnors]

The dual berserker 10/mage 11 has the great advantage of being a nearly instant dual class, just by memorizing the huige number of spells you've picked up making level 10 berserker. Using spells to improve hit points and THACO is NOT as good as having the skills and THACO naturally. Those spellskills can be dispelled, leaving you less able and a worse fighter.

As far as I know there is no clerical equivalent of the MMM spell which can put over 20 +5 missiles in your hand from one level 3 spell. Not even Kangaax the demi lich can save versus spell against one of those missiles.

I switched prematurely from fighter this game. To get the best character you should run your berserker to level 13, to get the maximum swings to 3 per round in a melee fight. I switched at 12 level. That took one million XP, leaving me 7,000,000XP to gain levels as a mage. Anyone seeing no advantages of a level 12 fighter over a level 7 fighter might as well just skip the fighter part and play a straight mage or cleric.

[red255]

the three generally places to dual a fighter are
Fighter 7 (BG1 you get your fighter class back before it ends)
Fighter 9 (Max Fighter HP)
Fighter 13 Extra main hand 1/2 attack.

I only would recommend Fighter 13 if dualing to a thief, and I suppose you could actually go to 14 without incurring more of a penalty since thief 39 to 40 is a massive gap.

since mages have tenser's transformation and Clerics have righteous magic.

and if you dual to druid you are not going for strength or utility you just want to be a special snowflake so do what ever you want.

and a dual wielding beserker cleric or beserker mage can reach 5 main hand attacks without the level 13 fighter extra half attack.

[danconnors]

The advantage of going to berserker 13, for me, is my mage spells last a lot longer. In most fights I don't need to use any spells at all. I can go a day or two without having to rest and re-memorize spells. My guy is a TRUE dual class, who uses the berserker at least half the time. The truth as I see it is a 13th level berserker with superior weapons and armor can outfight a normal 20th level berserker, by slinging a single 3rd level mage MMM spell at him before they get within melee range. That's at least 14 +5 missiles at his opponent before his opponent can do anything to him.

The 13th level berserker loses high level berserkers HLA's, but he get mage HLA's. And I found HLA's for fighters to actually be of very little use. You get them mostly in Throne Of Bhaal, and the last time I fought the final battle, I don't believe I used ANY HLA's.