What is the most powerful creature in BG/Ad&d Universe?

[Ariakas6]

Aside from gods, who is the most powerful? For ex a level 31 sorcerer can beat it in 1v1?

[two_or_three_raptors]

Definetly CHARNAME, because he wields the power of quicksave which beats all other powers. ;)

[Berendor]

A properly played Lich.

[red255]

so whats your question? Most powerful creature lore wise?

I mean Demogorgon is immune to time stop so he'll probably walk right over a sorc. given most things.

But yeah strongest thing is well.... epic spike traps. they'll kill anything. no save.

[Ariakas6]

Originally posted by red255:

so whats your question? Most powerful creature lore wise?

I mean Demogorgon is immune to time stop so he'll probably walk right over a sorc. given most things.

But yeah strongest thing is well.... epic spike traps. they'll kill anything. no save.

yeah i ask lore wise not the creatures in the game.

[Destrudo]

Aside from gods, Tiamat and Torrasque, probably. Also, in Planescape from same universe as world of Faerun and Baldurs Gate, there is Lady of Pain, and she even doesnt have any phisical stats, so basically it is impossible to defeat her in fight, and she, while not a god (although it is debatable) has a power to match them (although Planescape and city of Sigil isnt exist in new versions of D&D, as far as i know).

[Godsarm]

Originally posted by Berendor:

A properly played Lich.

I respectfully disagree. a 39th Level Cleric Anomen vaporizes a powerful lich Van Goethe with Turn Undead instantly. Also, they are vulnerable to Sunray. I don't worry about Liches after I have The Helm of Brilliance and Daystar. One appears, we get hasted, run up, hit Sunray x2, no more Lich. He can't get Time Stop off that fast

[Godsarm]

Kangaxx the Demi-Lich is my choice, he's the one that nearly everyone has a problem finding a strategy for. I ended up using one of the two Protection from Magic scrolls. Befoe Enhanced Edition I used to be able to kill him other ways, in EE this is the only way I've found to take him out.

Also, while not one creature, the Twisted Rune battle can be pretty rough if you're not prepared or use bad tactics. A solo here seems like suicide, on the plus side you get the Staff of the Magi, so it's worth figuring out how to win. BTW, the mage carrying said staff is positioned so it's almost a given that she'll be the last to die.

[The Call of CTulio]

Originally posted by Godsarm:

Kangaxx the Demi-Lich is my choice, he's the one that nearly everyone has a problem finding a strategy for. I ended up using one of the two Protection from Magic scrolls. Befoe Enhanced Edition I used to be able to kill him other ways, in EE this is the only way I've found to take him out.

Also, while not one creature, the Twisted Rune battle can be pretty rough if you're not prepared or use bad tactics. A solo here seems like suicide, on the plus side you get the Staff of the Magi, so it's worth figuring out how to win. BTW, the mage carrying said staff is positioned so it's almost a given that she'll be the last to die.

My last run againt kangaxx went too fast, i think he died instantly after the third hit from the mace of disruption.

[Godsarm]

Originally posted by The Call of CTulio:

Originally posted by Godsarm:

Kangaxx the Demi-Lich is my choice, he's the one that nearly everyone has a problem finding a strategy for. I ended up using one of the two Protection from Magic scrolls. Befoe Enhanced Edition I used to be able to kill him other ways, in EE this is the only way I've found to take him out.

Also, while not one creature, the Twisted Rune battle can be pretty rough if you're not prepared or use bad tactics. A solo here seems like suicide, on the plus side you get the Staff of the Magi, so it's worth figuring out how to win. BTW, the mage carrying said staff is positioned so it's almost a given that she'll be the last to die.

My last run againt kangaxx went too fast, i think he died instantly after the third hit from the mace of disruption.

That puts you in the minority even with veteran players, almost everone has a horror story to share on the EE version of Kangaxx.

[red255]

Originally posted by two_or_three_raptors:

Definetly CHARNAME, because he wields the power of quicksave which beats all other powers. ;)

Him and Bondari right?

[Berendor]

Originally posted by Godsarm:

Originally posted by Berendor:

A properly played Lich.

I respectfully disagree. a 39th Level Cleric Anomen vaporizes a powerful lich Van Goethe with Turn Undead instantly. Also, they are vulnerable to Sunray. I don't worry about Liches after I have The Helm of Brilliance and Daystar. One appears, we get hasted, run up, hit Sunray x2, no more Lich. He can't get Time Stop off that fast

I was speaking more from the AD&D part of his post, less the actual BG game itself. As a rule, there were no 39th level characters running around one-shotting creatures. Having said that, the High Level Campaigns book did allow a DM to run games up to 30th level.

Keep in mind that back in that edition, a Lich was formerly a Wizard of no less than 18th level and was likely to have access to magics the likes of which the PC's have never seen.

[wendigo211]

In 2nd Ed. FR, definitely the Tarrasque. Although in 3rd Ed and later I think a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon (66 CR) is probably the most powerful non-diety creature.

[Ariakas6]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

In 2nd Ed. FR, definitely the Tarrasque. Although in 3rd Ed and later I think a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon (66 CR) is probably the most powerful non-diety creature.

Are those dragons exist in the world or a thing that is implement by DM into campaign as an optional challange? I mean not existing in cannon but appear in some campaigns if DM wants.

[Vladislak]

Originally posted by Godsarm:

Originally posted by Berendor:

A properly played Lich.

I respectfully disagree. a 39th Level Cleric Anomen vaporizes a powerful lich Van Goethe with Turn Undead instantly. Also, they are vulnerable to Sunray. I don't worry about Liches after I have The Helm of Brilliance and Daystar. One appears, we get hasted, run up, hit Sunray x2, no more Lich. He can't get Time Stop off that fast

Except a properly played lich in actual D&D has prepared for pretty much every eventuality. You likely aren't even fighting him when you encounter him, you're fighting one of his many simulacrums or his astral form as he sits comfortably on his demiplane that you won't be able to find. He has contigency spells set up with all sorts of terrible effects for offense, defense, and escaping, and many of his spells are quickened or have other metamagic effects on them.

A properly played Lich doesn't wait for the heroes to find him, he shows up in astral form when they're sleeping and helpless and proceeds to decimate them with save or die spells. He chooses to encounter his foes on his terms in ideal circumstances or not at all. He WILL get first turn and he's prepared for years to make sure that first turn is also the last turn by studying his foes specific weaknesses.

And because he's immortal he has eternity to wait for the perfect opportunity, keeping an eye on them with scrying spells.

There are foes that are technically stronger than a properly played lich, ones who have more raw power and are more dangerous in a chance encounter, but a properly played lich is never a part of chance encounters. He's too deliberate for that, and his versatility as a spellcaster with many years of experience means he can topple enemies much, much stronger than him.

And like I said, he does it all sitting safely in his demiplane, he's not risking himself at all.

[red255]

so basically whatever character the DM has a hardon for.