Which kit to dual thief into fighter?

[barak.harel]

ב"ה
I am planning to try dualing a thief at level 11 into a fighter. That way I would lose only one fighter level for it (being a level 39 fighter at max XP). I intend to run a small party that will include a mage, so I could use knock for locks, and I will probably max both set traps and detect traps (unless going shadowdancer, in which case I would need another thief anyway since I will have to max hide and move silently). Using traps make a lot of battles easier, and the ability to start combat with a backstab by casting invisibility from a mage is also a nice thing. I ask for help choosing a kit to dual from.

The main possibilities are:
Assasin - Getting poison weapon is awesome for a fighter, and that extra bonus for THAC0 and damage is always nice.
Swashbuckler - +3 AC and +2 THAC0 and damage is just awesome, and would worth that fighter level even without the added ability of disarming traps and setting traps. and have enought thieving points to possibly open locks or detect illusions as well (which could save some spells for the mage).
Shadowdancer - Hide in plain sight with a fighter sound like an interesting option for tons of backstab.

I don't think much of using a bounty hunter or an unkitted thief, because all a bounty hunter get is another type of traps which is just inferior to the ones you could get with a multiclass fighter/thief, and an unkitted thief doen't get even those. I prefer a kit that give my fighter something extra :)
Which kit would be the most usefull to dual from?

[red255]

So you'd get a fighter with thief HP.

You do you.

so the question is why are we doing this? and not the other way?

you can dual a fighter at up to 14 and thief 39.

If we did kensai we'd get +4 attack/Damage +2 AC and -3 weapon speed factor. making up for the gear penalty when you get use any item so he can wear gloves.

But fine.

Assasin, main thing is the high backstab multiplier which you won't be getting so no.

Swash. Makes some sense except for the fighter HP issue.

the shadowdancer was going to say can't dual class, but apparently it can, you just need really high CHA, (as well as strength and dex)

always felt Hide in Plain sight is an abuse of the AI tracking but alot of thieves skills feel like cheats.

But yeah, I'd suggest a kensai dualled to theif at 13 or 14. would get you everything the swash gets, and you can backstab and have fighter HP which is like the point of being a fighter.

[barak.harel]

ב"ה
I've already soloed a kensai who dualed into a thief at level 15. It was a hard start, but after getting Use Any Item and Spiked Trap it was just amazing. However, this time I want a something else.
Anyway, it is much easier at early levels to play thief11->fighter, as a thief can get to level 11 before leaving Irenicus dungeon and dual immediately before leaving, and with the XP for leaving that dungeon he will immediately get to level 6. At level 6 you could already get grandmastery in shortbows, and then go strait to the copper coronet for that bow with 3 shots per round. At level 7 with grandmastery and that bow you get a total of 4.5 attacks per round, which is pretty nice. Playing an unkitted fighter is basicly starting the game as an archer with less bonuses and better AC, and later in the game get grandmastery in a nice melee weapon as well. It is a lot easier start to dual into a fighter than starting as a kensai and then starting to level as a thief.

Well, as a Shadowdancer I will probably want to dual only at level 13 for maximum backstab (since he is going to use it a lot more often), so I will keep that option for some later time perhaps.

If you say that poison weapon isn't enough for the assassin option to par with the greater fighting bonuses from the swashbuckler, then the swashbuckler is probably the better option in this case.

[red255]

Kensai isn't a hard start if you use barkskin or potions of defense. I recall getting literal tons of potions of defense in BG1 for the kensai. BG2 you have high level Jahiera casting Barkskin or amulets that cast Shield. I'd sway at 13 over 15 though but 15 does get you one more prof point.

[Damn_Monkey]

I start my Thieves as Swashbuckler, then dual them to Fighters. While he won't have the HP of a Fighter if you did it the other way around, I like the idea of having a thief at lower levels. I don't play them as Fighters either really, so the HP isn't an issue.

I like to do some RP with my characters, and form some back story to them. With my SB>F I invision a carefree rogue who likes to have his fun and get into some scuffles. By the end of BG1, he has grown up a bit and matured. By the time he has been kidnapped and lost his childhood friend in chateau irenicus, he realizes he needs to take things seriously and really start focusing on his combat, thus Dual classes into a Fighter.

Gives you enough points to spend in what every you want, and can have 3 points in Dual Wielding if you go the melee route. Since Backstabbing becomes mostly moot by ToB, and I rarely ever did it to begin with, I didn't feel like I was missing out.

[red255]

Its fine if you want to have a swash of say 5 or 10 and dual to fighter so you can have a thief that can deal with traps and locks and otherwise be a fighter on the team, when you run a team and not want to backstab.

Fighter -> theif gets you fighter HP, Theif HLA which are better.

Theif has epic traps, and craft alchemy and use any item. Craft Alchemy gets you oils of speed which are basically improved haste spells. also heals, also money

since thief has such a large gap between thief 39 and 40 all you lose is one possible thief level by dualing up to 14.

Theif (Swash)-> fighter. gets you a fighter with thief skills, reduced HP, but offsetting Reduced AC should be OK until AC no longer matters.

a Fighter-> theif can Use any item, including mage scrolls, allowing him to get familiar HP. So we are talking a good amount more HP.

http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Experience_Tables

TC has decided on Theif -> fighter, as such I'd suggest swash. Keeping in mind your HP will be reduced over a Fighter -> thief.

When to dual. If starting in BG1, you can max out pick locks and find trap by level 5 or so, level 10 is the end of BG1, level 12 is the end of SoD. level 15 is 1,100,000 which is fighter XP of 6,900,000 max or 35, meaning you'll lose one figher prof point at 36 which you would have gotten if you dualled sooner. you'll get 14 or 15 Fighter HLA. which is plenty.

but the downtime for a fighter 16 is 2,000,000 XP. also means you won't get your HLA until you've reached 4,100,000 total XP

whereas if you dualled at 10 you'd only need to wait to 750,000 to get your powers back, and HLA would only be delayed to 3,160,000.

and what are you getting for those 5 levels? -1 AC, +1 hit +1 damage.

all of which are reasonably moot in favor of the fighter bonuses.

What is this thief? is it going to be something that handles locks and traps? what is our armor situation? Because we COULD wear full plate Mail and lose our thief skills, and just remove the armor if we wanted to theif. or do we want to sneak around sneaky like?

[barak.harel]

ב"ה
Like imoen is a mage that saves you taking a thief in the party, I want a fighter that do the same but also set traps (or set traps instead of opening locks if assasin, since a mage with knock could take care of locks).
If playing a swashbuckler, by level 11 I could max find traps, set traps and open locks. It is also a level in which traps improve.
I would also get to level 11 during Irenicus dungeon. If I dual right before leaving then I would get to level 6 right after leaving, and have a level 6 fighter with grandmastery in shortbows, making him well built for some easy quests (probably going to the copper corronet as one of the first ones to get that amazing shortbow that shoot even faster). That way downtime is not so bad at all.
Swashbuckler also help getting faster proficiency in two weapon fighting, and by level 18 I would have grandmastery in katanas and wield celestial fury and belm. As mentioned before, I like playing with small parties to level up faster.

[red255]

12 gets you one more prof point. but yeah go ahead an minimize downtime.

Bounty hunter gets you more traps, but sounds like for your purposes you want a swashbuckler.