Agonizing over which party members to choose! (spoilers maybe)

[CaimDark]

There are so many people I want to take with me, it's awful! Well, good kind of awful, and I feel conflicted between characters I like for their usefulness and characters I like for roleplaying reasons.

My main is an archer, so I feel like I need at least two frontliners. One of them is Minsc. Minsc and boo will always be with me. I just can't bring myself to play this game without Minsc and Boo. As far as I'm concerned, it's against the law.

The other will be Keldorn, maybe. I like paladins, his inquisitor skills are very useful, and once I give him the gloves that boost dexterity and The Holy Avenger, he's an absolute beast.

Jaheira I could live without, but she's been with me since the very beginning, and her husband has just been murdered. I just don't think my character would ever dump her for somebody he's just met! She's a fiercely loyal friend who would follow me into the nine hells themselves, and in a way she's also a connection to Gorion. Plus, she's hardly a deadweight I carry around just to roleplay, she more than holds her own.

Viconia is a bit of an outlier since my party is all good, and it takes a bit of work to make sure she doesn't leave due to reputation and to keep Keldorn from killing her, but I need a cleric (don't even think of suggesting Anomen!), it really pisses me off that random people try to kill her just because she's a dark elf and I remember her romance being great. And despite what her alignment say, she never comes across as evil, just a jaded, selfish person who does what she must to survive. So much so that it's actually possible to change her alignment. More importantly, I really want to bang that Drow :)

Jan Jansen is really great, his antics make me laugh out loud, it's even better if Minsc is in the party, which he always is, and he's the only thief that I can level up and cheese stuff with traps if I want to. The problem is...

Imoen. There's no room for both her and Jan in my party. I'm tempted to leave her behind, as I have done on occasion in the past, but it just feels so wrong. How can I possibly leave my little sister who grew up with me and has been through thick and thin with me over some gnome conman I've just met?

Then there's Aerie. I sympathize with her story and like the idea of taking her under my proverbial wing and showing her the wide world. She's also pretty useful as a cleric mage, and if I romance her, I get to carry around a baby in my inventory in ToB!

That takes me to 7 people I really want to take with me, and and I can only choose 5 :(

Decisions, decisions...

And that's before I get to Throne of Bhaal and have to decide if I want to make room for big brother. So many decisions!

[wendigo211]

I've had trouble with Breach not working dependably in the past in the EE, on those occasions having Keldorn in the party was a necessity. With a full party I would drop Aerie, I just don't like how long it takes to level up her mage spells in a full party. I have a similar issue with Jan but there aren't a lot of thief options.

Given the characters you're favoring I would probably go:
Minsc, Keldorn, Jahiera, Viconia, Jan->Imoen
The problem being you only have 1/2 an arcane caster until you get back Imoen. With an archer main, that's a pretty warrior heavy party and Minsc is weak link of the warriors you have. Keldorn brings dispels and Jaheira brings druid spells, Minsc just brings melee.

If you're open to another option, what about:
Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Haerdalis, Jan->Imoen
Bards have a really strong dispel (since they hit level 40) and with defensive spin he can tank if that's what you need. It also gives you a stronger arcane presence.

[fauxpas]

I personally like...

Ward (Fighter or Fighter/Thief)
Minsc/Kheldon
Anomen
Jaheria
Imoen (Yoshi prior for his story)
Kelsey


Minsc/Kheldon gets swapped out as questing purposes demands.

[Leeux]

Choosing one NPC over another is one of the most painful aspects of this game :(

On my first playthourgh, in my case, I ended "giving" the ranger house to Minsc (I was a Ranger too) and decided to keep Keldorn around... but it was a painful decision, not because I didn't liked Keldorn... but finishing the game without Minsc in my party felt wrong :(

Also, I cannot seem to be able to say no to Jaheira... I simply can't. Same with Viconia. These are some of my favorite chars in any RPG :)

I never liked Jan... never liked Anomen... I kinda like Korgan, but not enough to justify him in my party, specially since he's evil aligned. And of course, I don't like any of the new NPCs.

Also, *NEVER* liked Edwin... he's always out. But one day I'll have to bring him with me if I wan't to do his quest just for what happens to him lol (no spoilers)

One that I like is Mazzy, but also I could never had a spot for her in my party... she's to late and when I reach there, we're full already :(

So, that's I why decided to try my hand at solo runs... they are less painful (except when you say NO to them... feels bad for a bit, but it's fair for everyone lol) and a change for me, since I always seemed to end with the same party in the end.

EDIT: phrasing
EDIT2: typoed Minsc name twice >.<

[fauxpas]

Honestly though, Anomen is mostly thrown in there so I get to see the conflicts between him and Kelsey.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

Originally posted by wendigo211:

I've had trouble with Breach not working dependably in the past in the EE, on those occasions having Keldorn in the party was a necessity.

Probably facing a Lich. They are immune to level 5 spells and lower.

[CaimDark]

Originally posted by fauxpas:

I personally like...

Ward (Fighter or Fighter/Thief)
Minsc/Kheldon
Anomen
Jaheria
Imoen (Yoshi prior for his story)
Kelsey


Minsc/Kheldon gets swapped out as questing purposes demands.

Ever Tried the Solaufein mod? I remember I liked it.

Originally posted by wendigo211:

Given the characters you're favoring I would probably go:
Minsc, Keldorn, Jahiera, Viconia, Jan->Imoen
The problem being you only have 1/2 an arcane caster until you get back Imoen. With an archer main, that's a pretty warrior heavy party and Minsc is weak link of the warriors you have. Keldorn brings dispels and Jaheira brings druid spells, Minsc just brings melee.

If you're open to another option, what about:
Minsc, Jaheira, Viconia, Haerdalis, Jan->Imoen
Bards have a really strong dispel (since they hit level 40) and with defensive spin he can tank if that's what you need. It also gives you a stronger arcane presence.

Half a wizard is enough until Imoen gets back. If memory serves, I've even played with Jan as my only arcane spellcasters all the way to the end of ToB once and didn't have too much trouble. Or maybe I did and don't remember lol, but I do remember I've never been big on spellcasters, I prefer to smash things. But at least one (or half!) is basically mandatory.

I've never used Haerdalis much, he didn't make much of an impression and suffers from "I met him too late to have room for him" syndrome. If I do bring him, then I'd want Aeris too just so I can finally see their romance play out.

Originally posted by Leeux:

On my first playthourgh, in my case, I ended "giving" the ranger house to Minsc (I was a Ranger too) and decided to keep Keldorn around... but it was a painful decision, not because I didn't liked Keldorn... but finishing the game without Minsc in my party felt wrong :(

Also, I cannot seem to be able to say no to Jaheira... I simply can't. Same with Viconia. These are some of my favorite chars in any RPG :)

This guy knows what's up :)

I never NOT had Minsc in my party, but I justified removing Imoen from the party in a similar way, I pretended that after everything that had happened, I would not risk losing her and would not expose her to the danger of being around me.

I have a hard time saying no to Jaheira as well, but I have done so once or twice And it breaks my heart when I remove her from the party and she sounds so surprised and disappointed :(

There are other characters I like besides the ones I mentioned, but thankfully none that I like enough to make things even harder :)

[fauxpas]

Originally posted by CaimDark:

Originally posted by fauxpas:

I personally like...

Ward (Fighter or Fighter/Thief)
Minsc/Kheldon
Anomen
Jaheria
Imoen (Yoshi prior for his story)
Kelsey


Minsc/Kheldon gets swapped out as questing purposes demands.

Ever Tried the Solaufein mod? I remember I liked it.

I've heard good things about it but honestly I'm all "Drizzted" out so I never gave him the chance I probably should have.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

Originally posted by wendigo211:

I've had trouble with Breach not working dependably in the past in the EE, on those occasions having Keldorn in the party was a necessity.

Probably facing a Lich. They are immune to level 5 spells and lower.

No it wasn't only lich, dragons and other casting enemies too. It was also an issue other players were having. The last time I ran into it, It was against a mage in the planar prison for Haerdalis' quest. Anyway sometimes it would work, sometimes it wouldn't. Sometimes restarting the game fixed it, sometimes it just lasted for hours. I ended up either chain casting it with sequencers, hoping at least one of them would stick, or bringing Keldorn along.

I would get the spell protections removed message coming up, but the combat protections removed message would not come up.

Edit: Anyway, spell immunity should not affect dispels and counterspells like Breach. You're targeting the enchantments on the target, not the target themselves and the D&D has always made the distinction. Breach also always worked Pre-EE. Besides, Keldorn's dispel is 3rd level and it works fine.

[guttahtrash]

I go through this every time! heh.

I usually play a thief or fighter/thief like fauxpas, sometimes, rarely, it's a f/m/t or bard though.

My current character isn't to BG2 yet, but my plan is to take

1. Fighter/Thief main
2. Jahira --> fighter/druid
3. Minsc --> cleric/ranger or ranger->cleric
4. Aerie --> mage/cleric
5. Yoshi/Immy
6. __??__ --> Sarevok

Leaving me one spot free for personal quests, a temp, and big brother come TOB.

Like many others, I like the family dynamic of it all. Two brothers and a sister travel with their longtime friends. If I choose to romance Aerie, then I get a kid that feeds into that as well. If not I'll take Haerdalis in the sixth slot to keep her interesting until TOB.

I'll EE Keeper Minsc into a cleric/ranger dual or multi. (I justify his wisdom comes from/through boo.) In the wikia, it says "Minsc has relied on Boo for moral support, decision-making, and wisdom" I liked that. http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Minsc

I didn't like Aerie years ago from a mechanics point of view. She died every seven seconds, and didn't excel at anything. Aerie is not a great primary caster or healer. But, over the years, I've read a lot of discussions on her and learned in a party that has those roles filled already, she's a wonderful secondary or tertiary caster and healer. She can do some cool things utilizing both divine and arcane when it comes to triggers and contingencies.

[Leeux]

@wendigo211, I'd wager you probably already know this... but just in case... I know I didn't noticed myself, until I read the combat log in detail.

Keep in mind that some enemies in EE seem to have Spell Shield up... (and I don't remember that being the case in the original games!) and it always consumes the first Breach/Pierce/etc, you launch at them.

In the combat log, it shows a special message when that happens... something like: "you hit a protection spell and it's now down", or something similar to that.

It happened to me again last session while fighting Draconis in TOB, for example. But it's a message that I seldom see appear in the log, and never payed attention to it before.


EDIT:

Originally posted by guttahtrash:

<snip>
I didn't like Aerie years ago from a mechanics point of view. She died every seven seconds, and didn't excel at anything. Aerie is not a great primary caster or healer. But, over the years, I've read a lot of discussions on her and learned in a party that has those roles filled already, she's a wonderful secondary or tertiary caster and healer. She can do some cool things utilizing both divine and arcane when it comes to triggers and contingencies.

Strange you say that :/ I used her as my main mage twice (Nalia being my secondary until I got Imoen back), and for me she was a powerhouse!
If you give her the robe of vecna/amulet of power, she's really really OP, IMHO.

Also, Contingencies/Spell Triggers/etc with Cleric spells on them? Yeah! Give me that!! :P lol

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by Leeux:

@wendigo211, I'd wager you probably already know this... but just in case... I know I didn't noticed myself, until I read the combat log in detail.

Keep in mind that some enemies in EE seem to have Spell Shield up... (and I don't remember that being the case in the original games!) and it always consumes the first Breach/Pierce/etc, you launch at them.

In the combat log, it shows a special message when that happens... something like: "you hit a protection spell and it's now down", or something similar to that.

It happened to me again last session while fighting Draconis in TOB, for example. But it's a message that I seldom see appear in the log, and never payed attention to it before.

It's more than this, here's an excerpt from a post I made a year ago about this, back then I only noticed in Lich fights, but since then it's been affecting all my anti-caster fights.

This was from a fight with the Twisted Rune:

Shandalar: Spell Trigger: Fireshield (Red), Stoneskin, Mislead
Imoen: True Seeing dispels Mislead
Imoen: Breach vs. Shandalar: Spell and Combat Protections dispelled
Keldorn: Hits Shandalar for 28 points of damage with Carsomyr (dispel on hit), spellcasting disrupted
Shandalar: Contingency: Protection from Magical Weapons
Imoen: Breach vs. Shandalar (nothing happens) (I get a Shandalar: Magic Resistance message)
My main (Kensai/Mage): Ruby Ray of Reversal Vs. Shandalar (nothing happens)
Imoen: Breach vs. Shandalar (nothing happens)
Shandalar: Sunfire
Keldorn: Dispel vs. Shandalar (Protection from Magical Weapons finally drops)
My main and Keldorn beat him to death

I triple checked the combat log and he never cast any spell defenses or any other spells than the ones I listed.

[New Moon On Monday]

Most mages seem to have spell protection through a contingency that immediately goes up, so usually you need to deal with that before going to Breach. Boss-type mages sometimes have multiple contingencies that will fire off new spell protections as soon as you get rid of the old ones. Too many times, the new spell protections fire up after your mage has started casting a Breach but before the spell is completed, wasting the Breach.

On topic- if you are only going to have one mage in the party, I think you have to go with Imoen instead of Jan, because your one mage should be as high level as possible. If you have to keep Jaheira, I think that leaves Aerie out. You don't really need a bunch more low-level healing spells.

Jaheira can wear heavy armor and tank, and I wouldn't think you would need her and Minsc and Keldorn. When it comes to usefulness, I would leave either Jaheira or Minsc behind- or when it comes to likeability, I might leave Keldorn behind- and instead bring along Jan for the extra mage spells. But if you really want all three, plus Imoen and Viconia, that should be a fine group.

[wendigo211]

Originally posted by New Moon On Monday:

Most mages seem to have spell protection through a contingency that immediately goes up, so usually you need to deal with that before going to Breach. Boss-type mages sometimes have multiple contingencies that will fire off new spell protections as soon as you get rid of the old ones. Too many times, the new spell protections fire up after your mage has started casting a Breach but before the spell is completed, wasting the Breach.

Yeah, but the contingency shows up in the log. Like it did when Shandalar's PfMW went up. Breach even worked the first time it was cast in the fight. It just stops working for no reason. It seems to always remove spell protections when it should, it just stops removing combat protections for some reason.

[CaimDark]

I'm leaning towards:

Me,
Minsc and Boo,
Keldorn,
Viconia,
Jan-Imoen
Aerie

Despite having played lots and lots of Shadows of Amn, sadly I didn't have acces to ToB at the time. I only finally got my hands on it much later, and I think I just played it once. If memory serves, I had Jan with me and not Imoen. This time me and little sister will stand together to the very end! But boy, I will miss Jan's antics.

From a narrative perspective, it would make more sense to keep Jaheira instead of either Keldorn or Viconia. Keldorn even wants to retire if you let him. But I really really like him mechanically and he's a life saver against some tougher wizard fights.

I could choose Jaheira over Viconia since I have Aerie to cover unique and necesary priest spells such as restoration, but I miss Viconia! So it is with a heavy heart that Jaheira will decide that she can be of more help to me by working behind the scenes with the Harpers, and that she also needs time to put Khalid's affairs in orders. He probably had critical family and harper business that he left undone when he died.

I like to imagine that my Bhaalspawn has always beem attracted to Viconia, and after seing her nearly die AGAIN at the hands of ignorant savages, he finally relented and let her travel with him.

So I have the the pretend scenarios in my head to justify my party, and mechanically, I have an archer that rarely misses and kills damn near everything, two powerful frontlines to keep the enemy from swarming the weaker characters in the back, a dedicated cleric who can also tank with the proper equipment and buffs if need be, a dedicated mage with the essential thief skills and Aerie to support with both divine and arcane spells.

Beware Irenicus and Amelyssan, here I come!

For reference, I played the entirety of BG1 with the canon party. In SoD, Safana was my thief, and I went with Corwin over Khalid because I liked her. Besides, we were at war, there were plenty of fronts that needed Khalid's attention, so I felt it made sense to keep Jaheira and Khalid apart for a while.

[New Moon On Monday]

Jaheira won't just say farewell and good luck when you try to dismiss her. She will lay on a heavy guilt-trip.