Question: Combat: Siege

[Altruist]

Some questions about combat and sieges. Surely not the first time this topic has come up but in the threads I found and read I wasn't able to find answeres to the following questions... my excuse if I was just bad in my research.

1) Manual, page 28, states in the subnote c) that defenders of a siege don't use terrain defense values but those of the fortification level.

The battle report does show both, though, for the defender: fortification level and terrain defense, see here an example:
# https://arglos.net/pk/img/kingdom_battle-report.png (55kb)
Is this just a display oversight? Or is the manual not correct?

2) If there is no fortification but just a villlage without fortification... does it still count as a siege and then the defender uses neither forification nor terrain modifier for defense but the "normal" siege modifiers?

3) The same table on manual page 28 states for sieges:
attacker: damage modifier x0.66
defender: damage modifier x1.5
If it is a siege which surrounds the location and the defending units have no region to retreat, gets the "surrounded" modifier (another x0.66 for attacker and x1.5 for defender) multiplied on top of the siege modifier like:
attacker modified damage = 0.66 x 0.66 = 0.44
defender modified damage = 1.5 x 1.5 = 2.25

And on top of that is also added (or multiplied?) weather and fortification modifiers?

4) And this should had been my first question:
Which combat values of the units are used for what in sieges?
a) Ranged and melee values adjusted by above modifiers vs units?
b) Siege values (also modified?) only to bring down the foritfication levels?
c) And the notification about breaches is rather flavour text informing about the fortification level having been reduced by 1 level... but not a necessary prerequisite to conquere the location?


Btw: Although I need some clarifications it is a good manual. Very helpful.
One sentence mentiioning that it is possible to stop repairs of garrisons by completly surrounding a location/fortification would be helpful, though. If my observation about this point was correct?

[plugger]

I'd second this. I'm also a bit perplexed by siege mechanics.

[Kraken Studios]

Just a display on the terrain... I will adjust it for sieges.... terrain does not count.

Yes no fortification locations still counts as a siege. Imagine you clear the jungle with your army and there is another army in open plains (cleared land) hiding in a bunch of wood huts like dummies.

Surrounded - the 1st surrounded on that chart is for field combat. The 2nd one is for siege combat. Same modifiers. I need to put some tabs in there or an "if surrounded" to specify.

Combat factors in a siege - It is the same for melee except no cavalry pursuit. But the defender gets damage reduced for every fortification level of the location. In general, you want to use infantry to attack a location not cavalry due to the cost of losses. Siege weapons allow breaches and destruction of fortification levels.

While you don't need siege engines they make sieges quicker and indirectly cause less casualties due to reducing the fortification levels.

Corrent the BREACH means that you lowered the fortification level. Like you broke through the 1st layer of defenses. It reduces the fort level. Look at some older castles. They had an outer all and an inner wall. Then some has also a court section for a final defense.

Thanks. It's not easy covering everything in the manual correctly and clearly. It takes me a long time to write those and I reread them several times but things slip through.

[Kraken Studios]

Basically....

It is like melee..... no cav pursuit.... siege values lower fort levels.... fort levels directly reduce casualties for the defenders.
surrounded = they can't reinforce = a unit in every hex around it and the port blockaded if it has a port.

[Altruist]

Thanks for the fast and specific answere(s). It's a pleasure and certainly always a great plus of a game when the dev is willing and able to answere.

Originally posted by Kraken Studios:

Surrounded - the 1st surrounded on that chart is for field combat. The 2nd one is for siege combat. Same modifiers. I need to put some tabs in there or an "if surrounded" to specify.

Ah, now I get it. The combat table on page 28 lists 6 different modes of combat and for each own conditions apply. They are not meant to read as mixing with each other.
Now that I am sure I have to admit the headline of the table "Battle Type[s]" should had been a strong hint into that direction.

[...a good manual. Very helpful.]

Originally posted by Kraken Studios:

Thanks. It's not easy covering everything in the manual correctly and clearly. It takes me a long time to write those and I reread them several times but things slip through.

Something to think or rather ask other players' opinion about it... since the game is probably appealing to quite mathminded tactical battleminded players like me but also to (often enough) not at all math minded adventure and role players alike, it might make sense to divide the manual into 2 parts:
One text and lore based for the latter and a table and formula oriented appendix for the former. While I like the mix of both in the manual, I know of enough players whose vision gets foggy as soon as they spot even one math-like formula. While I tend to overlook the text part and concentrate on the tables and formulas.

[Kraken Studios]

lol..... Funny enough I didn't have formulas in the manuals of my previous games. Players asked for them so I put them in this game.

My games are purposely made to avoid min-maxxing and overcomplexity. As long as you have the general idea of how combat and production work you will do well.

If you are a smaller kingdom defending as long as you know lancers and footmen are the key to defense you are good.

If you are attacking in the open, cavalry is important. You want to have more than your opponent.

Use the trade system to get more resources or gold. It isn't complex. It costs 2x as much to buy as to sell.

You can play a defending kingdom and focus on heroes.

You can play a conquest kingdom.

No single way to win.

Thanks for suggestions.