I Enjoy Difficulty, But...

[TBC]

The super spy difficulty setting is pretty outrageous. Even the first enemy can't be beaten. I've tried waiting to use the water skill when she's glowing yellow and trying different methods each time. He does more than 50% of my health per turn and I can't fell him.

And then I move it down one difficulty notch and I kill the thing in two hits?! I did a hyper-infused water attack AND a hyper laser PLUS a regular bash on the max difficulty and it didn't take it down, but one hyper water and a bash fell it in the second to last difficulty....

Really gotta work on balance.

[TBC]

Though, I will say after the first battle it does get a bit better on the highest difficulty. The two robo-dogs are still a little OP, to the point of you needing to rely on chance at level 3-4. But it isn't bad, and the retry system is pretty cool.

[Imaria]

The highest difficulty isn't meant for first playthrough, and it turns the game into a very different experience. It's meant to. It becomes almost a puzzle, trying to determine the absolute optimal way to complete every individual battle.

[TBC]

Originally posted by Imaria:

The highest difficulty isn't meant for first playthrough, and it turns the game into a very different experience. It's meant to. It becomes almost a puzzle, trying to determine the absolute optimal way to complete every individual battle.

Difficulty options available from the get-go should be able to be used on the initial playthrough. It's lazy game design to just say "well don't play it your first time, herp". What if I don't want to play through multiple times and want a challenging experience my first time?

The gap between viability and optimal play through the last two difficulty modes are too big. The second to last one is almost a joke, whereas the last difficulty mode is essentially praying to RNG gods unless you want to grind.

The very first battle in a game should be able to be beaten on any difficulty. Period. The only time that isn't the case is like in Etna mode for Disgaea 1, where the enemies are set to be at the place you'd be after beating the game once.

However, there is the item world to still level if you're underelveled, it allows you to play Etna mode also from a new level perspective so you can start on it, and it's brand new content for if you do beat the game and move on.

There's no excuse to include a difficulty mode that prevents you from even being able to beat the first battle. That just isn't good design.

[artofwar]

Some players enjoy trying the insane challenge on the first play through. Those players would argue there is no excuse to force players to play completely through the game on normal difficulty just to unlock the challenge they want.

As to the Super Spy difficulty itself, a lot of the mechanics are initially murky. Once you understand those mechanics, the difficulty is very manageable. If you are struggling on the very first battle, you simply do not understand the basic mechanics yet.

Edit: I just started a new game on Super Spy, and that first fight is more vicious than I remember (It took me three tries, and I've played through it on Super Spy before). So I feel where you're coming from. The difficulty balances out the further you go, though there are various difficulty spikes later in the game that still seem unfair (or at least inconsistent with the flow of the game).

[Imaria]

You can switch between difficulties at any time, hence why it's unlocked from the beginning. You can start using it whenever you feel comfortable doing so. And if you DON'T feel comfortable doing so, then don't. But the choice shouldn't be locked away because you couldn't help but jack the difficulty up to its highest, then be overwhelmed by it.

[EverythingIsData]

Originally posted by TBC:

There's no excuse to include a difficulty mode that prevents you from even being able to beat the first battle. That just isn't good design.

Oh please. The first fight is completely beatable; I just started a quick Super Spy run and crushed the enemy on the first try. Your inability to figure it out is not a reason for a real challenge to be locked out for the rest of us.

I hate all of these armchair game designers. How many successful RPGs do you have under your belt, that you feel qualfied to tell someone else what good design is and isn't?

[Gabby]

The difficulty description states it's intended to be used on a New Game +, complaining that you were able to choose it is kind of like launching a complaint against a gun company because you pointed a gun at your foot and pulled the trigger.

(And yes that's supposed to be a subtle play on words.)

[rwb36]

Super-Spy difficulty states that it's best saved for repeat playthroughs AND then to hammer the point, we made the first battle on Super-Spy require mastery of certain gameplay mechanics so that anyone who tries it knows what they're getting into. Some people like the extreme difficulty and we're not removing that option for them just because some people complain that it's too hard. Too hard is the whole point. If Super-Spy is too difficult for you, choose a different difficulty.

[K4ever]

It gets easier as you recruit different team members. One thing that is CRUCIAL to win in super spy is the Chemist Alchemize program + hyper mode Poison Item combination. Just by doing this the enemies will get hit HARD every single round, so even if you defend you still keep damaging them. There are many other things that I have learned, but without knowing this one there is no way to win.

[Manxome]

I do think it would be a good idea if there was an option to read about the necessary mechanics without first beating the fight. The fact that it requires mastery of advanced mechanics is reasonable; the fact that the game won't actually tell you those mechanics until you get past the fight is somewhat less reasonable.

In the mean time, you could consider reading this:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=904191391

And just to add my voice: the first fight IS possible on super-spy. It does NOT require praying for a favorable RNG. It just requires mastery of game mechanics that the game hasn't taught you yet.

[Halfshell]

Yeah as far as I know there are 2 ways to beat the first enemy on Super-Spy, both of which are RNG free. There might be a 3rd, but haven't seen it yet. Most of the fights in Super-Spy are RNG free if you know what you're doing (beat most of them 1st try, on 2nd playthrough myself [not including lategame]). But there are strats that will only work some of the time due to greed or mistakes.

Edit Also @K4 I almost never used Poison on Super-Spy do to a 'certain bug', so Poison is not required by any means for most fights.

[Shannon Shock]

Super-Spy explicitly tells you that it's "great for repeat playthroughs." If you choose to play blind on it after reading that, that's entirely your choice.

[K4ever]

Originally posted by Chaotic Corner Soul:

Edit Also @K4 I almost never used Poison on Super-Spy do to a 'certain bug', so Poison is not required by any means for most fights.

Not even necessary against the alien green cat in the festival? I know its optional though.

[Halfshell]

I did use Poison there in my playthrough. I might look into doing it Poisonless just out of curiosity.

Edit: Just looked into it. Easier than I thought honestly. This was also without doing the optional dungeon on the way here. Use the murder shield for high defense and speedstick. Basic turn order was Water > vulnerable hit > Defend > Water > Potion > Aegis > vulnerable hit (also stuns this time) > Defend > Heal > Water, Cat has 263 hp (we have 3 but over 100 Style). I'm not sure when murder works but eitherway its dead at that point. That was also first try so it was super messy lol. Should also mention I used water satchel. Update: Did it a second time just to confirm that it wasn't a fluke.

[K4ever]

Originally posted by Chaotic Corner Soul:

I did use Poison there in my playthrough. I might look into doing it Poisonless just out of curiosity.

Edit: Just looked into it. Easier than I thought honestly. This was also without doing the optional dungeon on the way here. Use the murder shield for high defense and speedstick. Basic turn order was Water > vulnerable hit > Defend > Water > Potion > Aegis > vulnerable hit (also stuns this time) > Defend > Heal > Water, Cat has 263 hp (we have 3 but over 100 Style). I'm not sure when murder works but eitherway its dead at that point. That was also first try so it was super messy lol. Should also mention I used water satchel. Update: Did it a second time just to confirm that it wasn't a fluke.

I still havent got used with the "murder" mechanic, but it seems it helped you do the job in this case. Kudos to you.