Tram speed.

[Stealthy]

Just checking:

New roads with After Dark and Snowfall DLCs, tram lanes. They show on editor to be same speed limit as the rest of the road. AVO mod shows tram speed to be 125km/h.

Yet, trams travel slower than other traffic on those 4 and 6-lane roads. Why? Bug or a "feature" ?

[MaxFX]

Do you use TM:PE? If so, try changing the speed limit of the tram lane. When selecting that lane, you'll see the speed limit the road comes by as default.

[MessengerOfRage]

I allways thougth that's the effect of road maintanace, trams don't seem to get the speed boost.

I used first person camera to look at actual driving speeds
I have well maintained roads.
my trams drive exactly at the speed limit if they can even on shared lanes where mainanace can go.
my cars go around 10kmh faster than the speed limit.
on the stretch of the higway from outside connection to first interchange where road maintanace can't go the cars also drive at the speed limit.
what I don't have is a test on an unmaintained tram road, only the unmaintained highway.

TMPE settings like reckless driving or individual driving styles also seem to influence actual travel speed, I needed to deactivate them or cars would speed even on the highway.

acceleration and decelleration could play a role if both car and tram start from a standstill or the road has some harsch turns.

[SievertChaser]

Gonna say it feels like they do.

[Stealthy]

Originally posted by MaxFX:

Do you use TM:PE? If so, try changing the speed limit of the tram lane. When selecting that lane, you'll see the speed limit the road comes by as default.

No, I don't use it. Based on Vanilla info on editors, trams should go faster than they actually do.

[Tsubame ⭐]

Trams are rather slow in real life anyway, especially on shared traffic. If a feature, seems fitting enough.

[Stealthy]

Originally posted by ᠌ ⁧⁧Tsubame ⭐:

Trams are rather slow in real life anyway, especially on shared traffic. If a feature, seems fitting enough.

Depends. On my hometown (which is also CO:s hometown) they go up to 70km/h on their own tracks. Within traffic they travel at the road speed and on central pedestrian / bus / tram road they go 20km/h.

[kristofburger]

I can confirm this behavior on six lane roads, but on one of the new four lane roads they're riding at the speed limit as expected. Looks like trams are capped to 50 speed on six lane roads for some reason and it's likely a bug.

[SievertChaser]

IIRC it's a known bug for the six-lanes, but I was getting the impression the four-lane small roads are affected too.

[Stealthy]

On small roads, they have 40km/h limit so tram can do that. But on 4-lane large and especially 6-lane large roads they travel slower than traffic.

[SievertChaser]

There also seems to be a glitch related to tracks at the terminus of six-lane roads - both tracks seem to connect to each opposite direction. I have a lanes-related mod, though, so I'm not sure.

[MessengerOfRage]

Stealthy and Dennis: has anyone of you checked on actual travel speeds?
because in my game trams go exactly the speed limit. 70 on my 6lane 50 on my 4lane and 30 on the 2lanes (speed limits set with TMPE)
they just look slow because cars go faster than the speed limit.

yes they look slower than the cars but I'd say the cars are to fast not that the trams are to slow because they travel exactly at the speed limit.

[Stealthy]

Originally posted by Coookyman:

Stealthy and Dennis: has anyone of you checked on actual travel speeds?
because in my game trams go exactly the speed limit. 70 on my 6lane 50 on my 4lane and 30 on the 2lanes (speed limits set with TMPE)
they just look slow because cars go faster than the speed limit.

yes they look slower than the cars but I'd say the cars are to fast not that the trams are to slow because they travel exactly at the speed limit.

Setting speed limits with TM:PE make your point invalid. Question is about _vanilla_ behaviour. And on that, cars drive faster than trams, even if the speed limit for both is the same.

I'll do a test and compare different roads side by side to see how big the difference is between the road types. That will shed some light which roads are affected and which aren't. Without any mods.

[MessengerOfRage]

Originally posted by Stealthy:

...TM:PE make your point invalid... is about _vanilla_... Without any mods.

c'mon put the pitchfork away.
It's not like I am trying to convert you to mod usage.
I'm interested in the topic, can't we engage in a conversation?
I find conversations about game mechanics most fruitfull with people that play the game differently. Different viewpoints give different impressions, sharing impressions completes the picture... in my humble opinion.

Originally posted by Stealthy:

....cars drive faster than trams, even if the speed limit for both is the same...

yep, totally agree, that's what I am seeing.
It's just that you seem to claim trams are to slow while from my viewpoint it looks like trams are ok but cars are to fast.... both viewpoints coming from the observation that trams are slower than cars.
I am afraid you are looking in the wrong direction, and surprised how steadfast you are in not looking around.

I am of the opinion that without checking on actual driving speed all you are doing is guessing around.
honest question, why don't just check on actual driving speed and know which direction to investigate?

Originally posted by Stealthy:

.I'll do a test and compare different roads side by side to see how big the difference is between the road types. That will shed some light which roads are affected and which aren't. Without any mods.

I am curious, please share the results!
(even if it's just a visual comparrison, without actual driving speeds)

[Stealthy]

Originally posted by Coookyman:

c'mon put the pitchfork away.

No pitch fork, just stating a fact as a reminder. When you adjust lane speeds with TM:PE things change and don't follow vanilla anymore. Vanilla tram only tracks are 40km/h but you can change them with TM:PE and trams will then travel that speed you set. But it doesn't tell if they actually did 40km/h in the first place.

Originally posted by Stealthy:

....cars drive faster than trams, even if the speed limit for both is the same...

yep, totally agree, that's what I am seeing.
It's just that you seem to claim trams are to slow while from my viewpoint it looks like trams are ok but cars are to fast.... both viewpoints coming from the observation that trams are slower than cars.
I am afraid you are looking in the wrong direction, and surprised how steadfast you are in not looking around.

I am of the opinion that without checking on actual driving speed all you are doing is guessing around.
honest question, why don't just check on actual driving speed and know which direction to investigate?

Originally posted by Stealthy:

.I'll do a test and compare different roads side by side to see how big the difference is between the road types. That will shed some light which roads are affected and which aren't. Without any mods.

I am curious, please share the results!
(even if it's just a visual comparrison, without actual driving speeds)

And how do you propose to check driving speeds without mods?

And if you think cars drive faster than speed limit in vanilla, what's the point of the speed limit then? and what is your evidence? A mod showing some speed which may or may not be correct?

[MessengerOfRage]

Originally posted by Stealthy:

No pitch fork, ...

thank you!

Originally posted by Stealthy:

When you adjust lane speeds with TM:PE things change and don't follow vanilla anymore...

most of the time mods just edit values like tresholds when a mechanic triggers, not the underlying mechanics themselfs.
granted, we can't be 100% sure the mechanics are identical that'S why I am suggest you test it.
I am not claiming to be right I am suggestingting a working test.

Originally posted by Stealthy:

And how do you propose to check driving speeds without mods?

by creating a testing box,
save your game, let's call it save1
save again call it save2
quit
subscribe to one mod that doesn't change game mechanics or your savegame
load save2
test test test
quit
unsub mod
load save1, clean and done no mod will influence your further gameplay. even if something breaks it's only save2 that is gone.

I can understand you wanting your game mechanics and your progress untouched by mods, the one sugested is only a camera thingy, let's you look closer without changeing things.

Originally posted by Stealthy:

And if you think cars drive faster than speed limit in vanilla, what's the point of the speed limit then?

oi, ask the devs, I allways found it silly that road maintanace lets cars speed over the limit.
but it's the way they implemented road maintenance on non snow maps, cars go faster on well maintained roads.
quote tooltip road maintanance depot: "allowing travel at higher than normal speeds"

ofc all my ramblings are irrelevant if you don't use road maintanence.

maybe do your speed comparison test with unmaintained roads and maintained roads next to each other? not as good as checking actual traveling speed but still might give insights?