Cities: Skylines

Cities: Skylines

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Bus Route Taking Unnecessary Detours
I edited the Red Line in the screenshots to extend it down the 3 lane road after I extended the road into a new area. Once I did this, it kept doing wonky routing with pointless detours. I tried deleting the route and recreating it from scratch, and this is the result:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2440848506
The parts not depicted are behaving normally.

The detour closer to the top has absolutely no reason to exist. The lane arrows allow for through traffic on the outside lane.

Here's a closeup of this section, and another showing the lane arrow settings:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2440848506

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2440848543

What's more, I have TM:PE set to busses ignore lane arrows, so even if a lane arrow were forcing a turn, the busses should be able to ignore that and follow their route properly, without driving half way across the city just to turn around and go back to the road they were originally on in the same direction, just to cross an intersection.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2440848576

How do I fix this?
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Showing 1-15 of 19 comments
Ashpeef Mar 30, 2021 @ 11:39am 
Your red line has a bus stop directly ahead of the junction where the detour happens, while the road it's on has three lanes in both directions. The lanes will each get dedicated to one direction: the rightmost to turn right (the 'detour' road), the other lanes to go straight on. Because the stop is so close to the junction (read: there's no node between the stop and the junction) your busses are unable to reach the middle lane and thus are forced to stay on the right lane and therefore turn right.
I have seen that happen even with the lane arrows set in TMPE. My solution has always been to not set the lane arrows, but to explicitly connect the lanes with TMPE.
Seriously Unserious Mar 30, 2021 @ 12:23pm 
Originally posted by Ashpeef:
Your red line has a bus stop directly ahead of the junction where the detour happens, while the road it's on has three lanes in both directions. The lanes will each get dedicated to one direction: the rightmost to turn right (the 'detour' road), the other lanes to go straight on. Because the stop is so close to the junction (read: there's no node between the stop and the junction) your busses are unable to reach the middle lane and thus are forced to stay on the right lane and therefore turn right.
I have seen that happen even with the lane arrows set in TMPE. My solution has always been to not set the lane arrows, but to explicitly connect the lanes with TMPE.
Take another look. I think you assumed the situation and not LOOKED at the situation. I showed, in screenshots and SPECIFIALLY SAID the outer lane is for BOTH right turns AND STRAIGHT ON. The busses are NOT forced to turn right there. I also have busses set to ignore turn arrows, so if if it were a right turn only lane, they busses SHOULD be allowed to go straight anyways and just ignore that rule.

That's why this is so confusing, the valid reasons I've read about that USUALLY cause this sort of problem are NOT the case here, and the things that are SUPPOSED to fix it aren't working.
Ashpeef Mar 30, 2021 @ 12:59pm 
I DID look and saw your set up, including the double arrows in the rightmost lane.

As I said: I have seen this same problem even after setting things up as you did. Using the lane connectors instead of the lane arrows solved it for me.
I know it is confusing but sometimes the game ignores the TMPE lane arrows in combination with the TMPE setting 'busses ignore arrows' (actually, you first tell the busses to ignore the arrows and then try to tell them where to go using the same arrows).

Try it. If it works, your problem is solved, if not: no harm done.
kristofburger Mar 30, 2021 @ 1:04pm 
Try to redraw these parts of the line after you've loaded the city fresh from booting up the game. I think TMPE is messing with you there because I've never seen that in vanilla.
Last edited by kristofburger; Mar 30, 2021 @ 1:05pm
macluk Mar 30, 2021 @ 1:55pm 
For buses you will need to use an option in TMPE that is called ignore road rules for buses. Not line connectors or arrows. Than start game, or unpause it, and let it run for a moment and it will adjust. Otherwise you will not see those changes while having game paused.
Last edited by macluk; Mar 30, 2021 @ 1:58pm
Originally posted by macluk:
For buses you will need to use an option in TMPE that is called ignore road rules for buses. Not line connectors or arrows. Than start game, or unpause it, and let it run for a moment and it will adjust. Otherwise you will not see those changes while having game paused.
Where is this option? The only policy option I can see specific to busses is the ignore lane arrows option. everything else applies to all vehicles, which is not what I want. That would cause a chaos of cars eventually.

After loading the section I did a close up of seems to have corrected itself, but the other section at the big intersection to the south is still wonky, and I just noticed the blue line crossing the red line is also doing a strange detour down into that industrial section too, it should be going straight but loops around before going straight.
Originally posted by Ashpeef:
I DID look and saw your set up, including the double arrows in the rightmost lane.

As I said: I have seen this same problem even after setting things up as you did. Using the lane connectors instead of the lane arrows solved it for me.
I know it is confusing but sometimes the game ignores the TMPE lane arrows in combination with the TMPE setting 'busses ignore arrows' (actually, you first tell the busses to ignore the arrows and then try to tell them where to go using the same arrows).

Try it. If it works, your problem is solved, if not: no harm done.
Using the lane connectors seems to have fixed up the wonky sections for now. That fix is far from ideal though, as that also allows cars and trucks to go straight on in these lanes, making them combo right turn straight on lanes, which is bad. I've seen enough of Biffa's traffic fix videos to know the car chaos that's eventually coming from that. I'm just trading routeing that makes busses useless for future traffic jams that will make the busses just as useless.

There has to be a better fix that allows me to have the proper lane designations that keeps traffic flowing and the busses following the proper routing to they're capable of getting their passengers where they want to go.
macluk Mar 30, 2021 @ 10:40pm 
Originally posted by Seriously Unserious:
Originally posted by macluk:
For buses you will need to use an option in TMPE that is called ignore road rules for buses. Not line connectors or arrows. Than start game, or unpause it, and let it run for a moment and it will adjust. Otherwise you will not see those changes while having game paused.
Where is this option? The only policy option I can see specific to busses is the ignore lane arrows option. everything else applies to all vehicles, which is not what I want. That would cause a chaos of cars eventually.

After loading the section I did a close up of seems to have corrected itself, but the other section at the big intersection to the south is still wonky, and I just noticed the blue line crossing the red line is also doing a strange detour down into that industrial section too, it should be going straight but loops around before going straight.
Yeah that option.
And did you unpause the game and let it run for few minutes? It won't fix itself immediately especially when on pause.
Seriously Unserious Mar 31, 2021 @ 12:09am 
Originally posted by macluk:
Originally posted by Seriously Unserious:
Where is this option? The only policy option I can see specific to busses is the ignore lane arrows option. everything else applies to all vehicles, which is not what I want. That would cause a chaos of cars eventually.

After loading the section I did a close up of seems to have corrected itself, but the other section at the big intersection to the south is still wonky, and I just noticed the blue line crossing the red line is also doing a strange detour down into that industrial section too, it should be going straight but loops around before going straight.
Yeah that option.
And did you unpause the game and let it run for few minutes? It won't fix itself immediately especially when on pause.
Check my post immediately above yours.
MessengerOfRage Mar 31, 2021 @ 10:40am 
first I want to get something out of the way:
The "buses can ignore lane arrows" function can only work on unchanged intersections or if you changed the arrows with the lane arrow tool.
If you use lane connectors the lane arrow will reflect the connector setting but can't be ignored because the underlying lane connector can't be ignored... not even by emergency vehicles in response mode.
lane connectors are like physically merging the lanes... pathfinding is unable to "see" unconnected lanes at that intersection.

Your screenshots clearly show the same symtops as if the outer lane is forcing them to turn.
even on intersections where the line keeps going straight on you can see a little kink in the line 1 node before the intersection, that's where they intend to change lane to keep going straight on... when they are able to go straight they need to avoid the outer lane so I assume the outer lane would force them to turn.

I have seen your 3rd screenshot and read your posts, you seem to know this behaviour and took steps to avoit it.

this looks like a mod error or a mod conflict.
which other traffic mods do you use?
do you have the most current version of TMPE? (try to unsub and resub it to get a new download)

ahhh I got one more vague suspicion: do you use lane connectors? if yes can you please show a screenshot of the lane connector overlay?

Originally posted by Coookyman:
first I want to get something out of the way:
The "buses can ignore lane arrows" function can only work on unchanged intersections or if you changed the arrows with the lane arrow tool.
If you use lane connectors the lane arrow will reflect the connector setting but can't be ignored because the underlying lane connector can't be ignored... not even by emergency vehicles in response mode.
lane connectors are like physically merging the lanes... pathfinding is unable to "see" unconnected lanes at that intersection.

Your screenshots clearly show the same symtops as if the outer lane is forcing them to turn.
even on intersections where the line keeps going straight on you can see a little kink in the line 1 node before the intersection, that's where they intend to change lane to keep going straight on... when they are able to go straight they need to avoid the outer lane so I assume the outer lane would force them to turn.

I have seen your 3rd screenshot and read your posts, you seem to know this behaviour and took steps to avoit it.

this looks like a mod error or a mod conflict.
which other traffic mods do you use?
do you have the most current version of TMPE? (try to unsub and resub it to get a new download)

ahhh I got one more vague suspicion: do you use lane connectors? if yes can you please show a screenshot of the lane connector overlay?
At the time I first encountered this issue and for those specific intersections, no. I was exclusively using the lane arrows tool in TM:PE.

At the time I first encountered this, I had only 2 mods active, TM:PE and Parallel Road Tool installed and active. I wouldn't expect PRT to conflict with TM:PE as they both affect different parts of the game, 1 the management of existing roads and the other the construction of new roads, to make it run parallel to an adjacent road rather then fighting with them trying to link into an intersection constantly.

The curb lane was set to allow both straight on and right turns, and I was seeing traffic behaviour there that was consistent with that setting. Yet that busses kept insisting on looping around other roads at that specific intersection even though they could more easily just go through. I had to apply lane connectors to make a stronger enforcement of the can turn right or go straight rule before the busses would accept it at that intersection, and a couple of other problem intersections where they kept doing this.

I normally don't use the lane connectors on city streets, mostly using them on highway junctions to ensure proper merging behaviour, otherwise the vanilla behaviour will have them all changing lanes back and forth right at the point of merging and getting in each other's way, causing traffic jams.

The way I'm using TM:PE is mostly the way Biffa recommends it in his videos these days.

Fortunately, so far the busses seem to be following a sensible route between their stops, but I am concerned about the traffic going postal and getting a line backed up for kilometers in a single lane of a 6 lane road because the forced dual direction lane on the outside triggers them to all crowd that lane and ignore all the others. That's often a source of traffic problems in BIffa's series on fixing gridlocked cities.

So long term, I need a fix to allow me to have the outside lane function as right turns only, at least for busy intersections, without the busses going berzerk and driving on a tour of the city before resuming their regularly scheduled route.

Note:

I've since added in Move It and a couple of required mods to deal with another issue, with placement of an underground metro station - basically it was locking on to the wrong street at an intersection and the only way to get the station (and connected track) facing the right way was to use Move It to rotate the station to the correct angle. That rotational correction (being able to rotate objects to face the right street should be a part of the base game IMO) is working fine so far, no issues there.
Mytwo Centsworth Mar 31, 2021 @ 7:00pm 
I had wonky bus routes. Sometimes leaving a stop, turning right, going around the block, and driving right past the bus stop they left, only in a different lane. The busses ignored and lane arrows or TMPE instructions I gave them.

As Ashpeef says, my problem was no node between the stop and the next junction. They wanted a node to change lanes before the junction, but they were denied that, so they went around the block to get to the other lane. I spread out my intersections by dead-ending every other side street to a cul-de-sac, and placing my bus stop where those junctions used to be. Problem solved.
Originally posted by Mytwo Centsworth:
I had wonky bus routes. Sometimes leaving a stop, turning right, going around the block, and driving right past the bus stop they left, only in a different lane. The busses ignored and lane arrows or TMPE instructions I gave them.

As Ashpeef says, my problem was no node between the stop and the next junction. They wanted a node to change lanes before the junction, but they were denied that, so they went around the block to get to the other lane. I spread out my intersections by dead-ending every other side street to a cul-de-sac, and placing my bus stop where those junctions used to be. Problem solved.
I actually use the cul-de-sac method for many of my side streets too. Mainly been using it as a traffic calming measure for what are supposed to be quiet residential back streets, not main thoroughfares. I started that strategy going all the way back to Sim City 4, and continued it in CS. If I don't, sure as rain, a crowed of dumbasses are doing to jam up on that side street rather then go to the big main streets ONE BLOCK AWAY just because that tiny side street just happened to be the first turn doing in the right general direction they came to. By cutting them off into cul-de-sacs, they can't find a path that way and have no choice but to continue to the main streets built to handle the volume. That also keeps them from driving the residents of that street up the wall from all the traffic noises they shouldn't have to be dealing with.
MessengerOfRage Mar 31, 2021 @ 10:37pm 
try to activate "vehicles that go straight on may change lanes"

you can eighter do that globaly in TMPE options or manually for every junction under junction restrictions.

If you don' use that function lanes across an intersection get mapped to each other and I belive your reciving curb lane is maped to recive the cars from the side street.
lane connectors will still be stronger.

if this doesn't work I agree with the suggested workaround of giving them a node between the stop and the junction.

this mod can add nodes without the need to add new streets.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1645781000
Originally posted by Coookyman:
try to activate "vehicles that go straight on may change lanes"

you can eighter do that globaly in TMPE options or manually for every junction under junction restrictions.

If you don' use that function lanes across an intersection get mapped to each other and I belive your reciving curb lane is maped to recive the cars from the side street.
lane connectors will still be stronger.

if this doesn't work I agree with the suggested workaround of giving them a node between the stop and the junction.

this mod can add nodes without the need to add new streets.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1645781000
I already did, busses didn't respond to it. In fact, I think something's still borked with bus routing, as I was looking at the busses more closely today and noticed they all seem to keep thinking they have to move into the inside lane even though the outside lanes are ALL marked to allow straight through traffic on my city streets. I've never seen that before and I've been using TM:PE for most of the time I've had CS.

I'll check out the mod you suggested when I'm not half asleep. Maybe adding an extra node between the stops and the intersections will at least stop the busses going haywire whenever I route them down a street with the outside lane functioning as right turns only. That would certainly be better then risking the traffic chaos that sometimes erupts from those combo direction lanes.
Last edited by Seriously Unserious; Apr 1, 2021 @ 1:17am
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Date Posted: Mar 30, 2021 @ 9:11am
Posts: 19