Help For Choosing Upgrade For Laptop: RAM,SSD/eGPU

[Paix26]

Hi, I'm searching around the internet some upgrades for my laptop, it's 2/3 years old and it's not super high specs but has 8GB ram so that's nice. But I see it slowing down and I'm a bit worried to get the battery to make it last and I'm not planning to buy a desktop because I'm likely not going to use a pc that I can't move. Cs with the right considerations for me it works quite well because I use dinamic resolution and medium graphic settings and I run from 20-40 FPS with my biggest in scale City (and I build small scale, small cities/communities, as creating cities mean 3 times the assets and hardware usage).

A few day ago I cleaned up my pc, defragmented disk, temporary files etc and my LSM loading time in half so yey! But I had problems with my GPU. (Even if I pretty much solved them) My pc has the standard intel integrated graphic, and shouldn't be compatible even If it works fine. So I started searching a bit for updates: of course RAM, SSD and eGPU. About ram and SSD it's quite straight forward: if I upgrade my ram I will take a 16gb and ram as my laptop has 4gb ram integrated and 4gb solid stick so I will have 20gb of ram. About SSD I will take a 2.5 inch 500mb, that is 3/4 times faster than the stock one even if it has half the GB (from 1T to 500Gb) but I can manage to clean up the disk as I have quite a big of garbage I don't really use. The thing is that I don't know if this will ever help or relieve some pressure from CPU or GPU and in case the only thing I can think to upgrade the Gpu is an external GPU: in any case assembling the eGPU from Amazon and bang good for the dock (so dock and Nvidia compatible GPU and I think I already have a generator from an older pc) is a bit more than the price of the RAM and SSD and now comes the doubts: In case of a eGPU I will buy a Nvidia GTX 1030 2GB just because I don't plan to use super ultra hd games setting with extreme performance and I would be fine with that GPU. The thing is that eGPU have bottle necks that don't allow you to use all the GPU capacity, my computer is not old at all but even then I will have some problems with not using all the GPU capacity (if I will even get to get it installed and if I don't get incompatibilities, but I think that the GTX1030 is pretty safe).

The Cs minimum requirement is the 311 Nvidia that I think is not that much but who knows if my GPU will be better than that (I think so but who knows, and I don't have that GPU to compare), will it be better then my current intel uhd graphics? It would be better in a desktop but I don't know with the eGPU. At least it will be compatible but in terms of performance I don't know what to chose between, ram and SSD, ram (or maybe 8gb instead of 16gb ram)/SSD and setting up the eGPU or in a first moment the SSD and ram and maybe later the eGPU and viceversa. Of course it would cost a lot making them all together and even if I don't plant to buy a desktop I don't know how a eGPU is worth it or my intel UHD graphics will be better. I don't really know how to set the priorities and what the benefits are, I would appreciate if anyone with a bit more experience and knowledge that can help :)

Specs:
Windows 10
Intel i3 8th gen 8130u
Intel UHD graphics
8GB DDR4 RAM


Thank you

[Gordin]

Hi,

i don't have any experience with external GPU setups, i only know what i saw on LTT (i think the conclusion was like: if you got appropriate connectivity, it's fine).

However, i'm not a fan of the 1030GT choice. This is not really a card for gaming, rather one you would use if your CPU does not have integrated graphics and you only wanted to use 2D applications. I know the GPU market is tough at the moment, but you'd be better off getting a used card of one of the older GTX series. For the price of a new 1030GT you could get a used GTX780 for instance, which i would guess would have thrice the performance.

In terms of RAM, i'd think having more than 8GB is nice for Cities Skylines, but the working set (which marginally determines the performance) appears to be only about 4-5GB, at least my Windows pages out everything else, eventhough i have 16GB of it.

In terms of SSD, you can only expect loading times to increase (if anything). Defragmentation of SSDs is not necessary btw (some even claim it may be harmful to SSDs since it causes additional writes).

I don't really know what exactly you want to achieve with the upgrades, but when in doubt gaming on a dedicated GPU will always be nicer than using integrated graphics.

That being said, the game's bottleneck quickly becomes the CPU, so your milage may vary.

Update: Older GPUs may not be supported to run as eGPUs, you should check beforehand. The list for Thunderbolt 3 should be this: https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4565/kw/list%20of%20series%20gpus, so picking up a used GTX970 for instance should also work (about the price of used 780s).

[Paix26]

Gordin eredeti hozzászólása:

Hi
i don't have any experience with external GPU setups, i only know what i saw on LTT (i think the conclusion was like: if you got appropriate connectivity, it's fine).

However, i'm not a fan of the 1030GT choice. This is not really a card for gaming, rather one you would use if your CPU does not have integrated graphics and you only wanted to use 2D applications. I know the GPU market is tough at the moment, but you'd be better off getting a used card of one of the older GTX series. For the price of a new 1030GT you could get a used GTX780 for instance, which i would guess would have thrice the performance.

In terms of RAM, i'd think having more than 8GB is nice for Cities Skylines, but the working set (which marginally determines the performance) appears to be only about 4-5GB, at least my Windows pages out everything else, eventhough i have 16GB of it.

In terms of SSD, you can only expect loading times to increase (if anything). Defragmentation of SSDs is not necessary btw (some even claim it may be harmful to SSDs since it causes additional writes).

I don't really know what exactly you want to achieve with the upgrades, but when in doubt gaming on a dedicated GPU will always be nicer than using integrated graphics.

That being said, the game's bottleneck quickly becomes the CPU, so your milage may vary.

Update: Older GPUs may not be supported to run as eGPUs, you should check beforehand. The list for Thunderbolt 3 should be this: https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4565/kw/list%20of%20series%20gpus, so picking up a used GTX970 for instance should also work (about the price of used 780s).

I will see for the eGPU but in case I can buy a used 660, can that solve the compatibility problem? Idk if it's compatible with an intel i3.

I don't know about the SSD, are you sure? Usually ssd's are better then hard drives and should speed up loading (also using less battery). And also it runs 3/4 times faster then my current one. In general SSD increase loading times.

The thing is that if I get more ram but I don't get to use more assets/mods in a bigger city because of my GPU I don't know whether to upgrade the Gpu (because I can do nothing to the CPU as it's a laptop). With ram will I get more perfomance? Or because of the GPU I won't be able to use the full extent of my new ram? Because in that case maybe I can think of adding a 1030gt/used 660gtx that would boost the performance a bit and buy 8gb ram (so from 8gb to 12gb) or adding 16gb makes more of a difference then adding an 8gb ram and a eGPU?

[MarkJohnson]

Paix26 eredeti hozzászólása:

Specs:
Windows 10
Intel i3 8th gen 8130u
Intel UHD graphics
8GB DDR4 RAM

First, i3 is only a dual core CPU, while this game can use 8. Your CPU is way under spec.

8GB of RAM will be a little low for this game. Especially with integrated graphics, which can use up several GB of RAM and leave your system with too little RAM and be laggy stuttering.

UHD graphics aren't enough to get far in this game. I think I got around 125k population on 4 tiles and the game was so slow. I also had 16GB of RAM, and a the best i3 desktop CPU at the time.

So, you should be able to get around 75k population or so and maybe more with very specific mods to allow you to bypass parts of the game.

I think a replacement is best. The cost of more ram and external GPU can be expensive. It might be cheaper (easier) to get a new laptop with 8-core laptop.

-------------------

One trick I learned was using a demand mod to build only residential so I could build a city with very little traffic, as traffic is what slows you down the most.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1522785644

[Paix26]

MarkJohnson eredeti hozzászólása:

Paix26 eredeti hozzászólása:

Specs:
Windows 10
Intel i3 8th gen 8130u
Intel UHD graphics
8GB DDR4 RAM

First, i3 is only a dual core CPU, while this game can use 8. Your CPU is way under spec.

8GB of RAM will be a little low for this game. Especially with integrated graphics, which can use up several GB of RAM and leave your system with too little RAM and be laggy stuttering.

UHD graphics aren't enough to get far in this game. I think I got around 125k population on 4 tiles and the game was so slow. I also had 16GB of RAM, and a the best i3 desktop CPU at the time.

So, you should be able to get around 75k population or so and maybe more with very specific mods to allow you to bypass parts of the game.

I think a replacement is best. The cost of more ram and external GPU can be expensive. It might be cheaper (easier) to get a new laptop with 8-core laptop.

-------------------

One trick I learned was using a demand mod to build only residential so I could build a city with very little traffic, as traffic is what slows you down the most.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1522785644

This doesn't really help :/. Buying a new laptop it's not an option.

[chimeran_dragon]

I'm not really sure you can truly upgrade a laptop but this is my potato:

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10750H CPU @ 2.60GHz, 2592 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
1 TB SSD
Windows 10
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Max-Q Design

Your biggest drawback using a laptop vs. a desktop is laptops are meant to conserve power even if you have it plugged in. A desktop CPU will always have better performance than the same exact laptop CPU. Since C:S is using the Unity Engine you will need an excellent CPU that will be able to withstand lots of heat for extended periods of time if you want high performance while playing C:S.

[Paix26]

chimeran_dragon eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm not really sure you can truly upgrade a laptop but this is my potato:

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10750H CPU @ 2.60GHz, 2592 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
1 TB SSD
Windows 10
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Max-Q Design

Your biggest drawback using a laptop vs. a desktop is laptops are meant to conserve power even if you have it plugged in. A desktop CPU will always have better performance than the same exact laptop CPU. Since C:S is using the Unity Engine you will need an excellent CPU that will be able to withstand lots of heat for extended periods of time if you want high performance while playing C:S.

I use a little fan to lower the extreme heat. I know laptops are constructed at the bare minimum to fit everything and more lite as possible but in the possibility of upgrading something, what should I do?

[WhiteKnight77]

Paix26 eredeti hozzászólása:

chimeran_dragon eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm not really sure you can truly upgrade a laptop but this is my potato:

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10750H CPU @ 2.60GHz, 2592 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)
Installed Physical Memory (RAM) 16.0 GB
1 TB SSD
Windows 10
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 with Max-Q Design

Your biggest drawback using a laptop vs. a desktop is laptops are meant to conserve power even if you have it plugged in. A desktop CPU will always have better performance than the same exact laptop CPU. Since C:S is using the Unity Engine you will need an excellent CPU that will be able to withstand lots of heat for extended periods of time if you want high performance while playing C:S.

I use a little fan to lower the extreme heat. I know laptops are constructed at the bare minimum to fit everything and more lite as possible but in the possibility of upgrading something, what should I do?

Who made the laptop? Some can be, most cannot. If you got one from Falcon Northwest or Voodoo PC, maybe, but if you have a Dell or HP, no.

[Paix26]

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Paix26 eredeti hozzászólása:

I use a little fan to lower the extreme heat. I know laptops are constructed at the bare minimum to fit everything and more lite as possible but in the possibility of upgrading something, what should I do?

Who made the laptop? Some can be, most cannot. If you got one from Falcon Northwest or Voodoo PC, maybe, but if you have a Dell or HP, no.

Acer Aspire a515-51-35nb

[MarkJohnson]

Paix26 eredeti hozzászólása:

This doesn't really help :/. Buying a new laptop it's not an option.

Paix26 eredeti hozzászólása:

Acer Aspire a515-51-35nb

This is an office laptop. There is very little you can upgrade.

It comes with a 1TB HDD. A replacement SSD might help, as it is more responsive and faster. It will definitely help Windows process game data and other background task. It will shorten load times for sure. But once the game is loaded, the drives won't be used very much.

8GB is just going to be a huge bottleneck. It will be paging stuff out of RAM into your pagefile a lot, causing game lag while it has to wait on swapping to HDD. An SSD will be much quicker, but still slow. An SSD is significantly slower than RAM. 16GB should be enough if you don't have many DLC and no workshop.

Sadly the CPU can't be replaced, so you are going to be stuck with small cities. But you can still have a lot of fun with small cities. I used to play Simcity 2013 a lot, and it had only 1-tile cities and I had more hours on it than this game. And I only played simcity 2013 for a couple years. I have played this for over 6-years and have almost the same amount of hours played as simcity 2013.

[Gordin]

Gordin eredeti hozzászólása:

Hi,
[...]
In terms of SSD, you can only expect loading times to increase (if anything). Defragmentation of SSDs is not necessary btw (some even claim it may be harmful to SSDs since it causes additional writes).

[...]

Well that was a typo of course, i meant to say "improve" -> shorter loading times

[Verullus Forgefire]

BTW right now would not be the right time to try and upgrade a computer/laptop.. with these prices around..

[MarkJohnson]

Also, your laptop will accept a fast NVMe M.2 SSD.

Here's a video I came across on upgrading RAM and NVMe SSD:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Q6UiAy2cU

The motherboard doesn't seem to have a screw for the SSD, so you will need a screw size of 2.0 x 3mm (CM2x3-3.3). Just google M.2 screw online and they should show up.

[chimeran_dragon]

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Paix26 eredeti hozzászólása:

I use a little fan to lower the extreme heat. I know laptops are constructed at the bare minimum to fit everything and more lite as possible but in the possibility of upgrading something, what should I do?

Who made the laptop? Some can be, most cannot. If you got one from Falcon Northwest or Voodoo PC, maybe, but if you have a Dell or HP, no.

Laptops generally only allow for RAM to be upgraded and not much more. You have to understand that the chassis for cookie cutter laptops (Dell, HP) are molded for the components inside to deal specifically with heat dissipation due to compacting all the internal components. Even the chassis for a custom laptop (Falcon Northwest) is designed around the internal components for heat dissipation. Theoretically you could put any components (motherboard, GPU. CPU, etc.) into a laptop provided they would fit into the chassis. Your problem will be placing your CPU, GPU, etc. near the vents to deal with heat. Thermal paste can only do so much which is why the heat sinks are designed for components in the chassis.

[WhiteKnight77]

chimeran_dragon eredeti hozzászólása:

WhiteKnight77 eredeti hozzászólása:

Who made the laptop? Some can be, most cannot. If you got one from Falcon Northwest or Voodoo PC, maybe, but if you have a Dell or HP, no.

Laptops generally only allow for RAM to be upgraded and not much more. You have to understand that the chassis for cookie cutter laptops (Dell, HP) are molded for the components inside to deal specifically with heat dissipation due to compacting all the internal components. Even the chassis for a custom laptop (Falcon Northwest) is designed around the internal components for heat dissipation. Theoretically you could put any components (motherboard, GPU. CPU, etc.) into a laptop provided they would fit into the chassis. Your problem will be placing your CPU, GPU, etc. near the vents to deal with heat. Thermal paste can only do so much which is why the heat sinks are designed for components in the chassis.

There have been laptops that have upgradeable GPUs[hexus.net] though they may cost a bit more. While it is true that the vast majority of laptops cannot be upgraded in the video card department, there are those that can be.