Industries is a broken mess

[Waltzing]

Why you ask? because I'm not a fan of how my budget fluctuates by thousands of dollars when you build industry zones. People say it's traffic related and how fast you can get materials out of the city, which is rubbish. I even spend hours perfecting the roads and locations of buildings so my traffic flow percentage is 97+ and what I get for my hard work? Buildings who are starved of resources and while large stock yards remain full.

I'm convinced there has to be major errors in the game's code because what sane developer will allow a building to call out for more supplies while dozens of trucks drive by exporting the required raw material. I now normally build your standard industry zones, which comes with none of the draw backs and a stable economy.

[SilverAgeFan]

I've experienced the fluctuations you are talking about. And TBH, I think it is working as intended.

The fluctuations have to do with production chains and production intervals at factories (that little blue box filling up). This becomes really apparent when you build the shipyard. Only one ship is built at a time and it is only sold upon completion. Hiccups or traffic delays in any of the four requisite materials will delay the interval even more. But even with a fluid supply chain AND boosted factory production, that interval is quite pronounced.

So I've had to adjust my playstyle with Industries. I keep more in the bank and need to watch a much bigger set of up and down waves in my budget. Based on experience, these also seem to be asynchronous waves--meaning sometimes they dampen each other's influence, and sometimes they amplify--further meaning occasional huge drops in a budget. Which TBH does add a level of realism of dynamic economics of good quarters and bad quarters for your city.

BUT if you really hate it, I suppose after getting achievements you could just deinstall it or not play with anything but the additional roads and toll booths. (I personally hate the toll booths as I don't think the $$ is worth the hit to traffic flow.)

[Danson]

I don't think the up and down is as annoying as the fact that the game can't keep up with it and doesn't really give you an idea of what's happening. The game says my forestry and farming are both losing money, but my warehouses are making 10k+ profit (except for when it annoyingly fluctuates). Click on the main buildings, which are apparently losing a tiny sum of money. Click on a different building, go back to main building, suddenly making thousands. A graph or something to give me an idea of the average income sure would be useful. Or, ya know, it could just not fluctuate by tens of thousands of dollars (which, as you pointed out, doesn't seem fixable).

[Stealthy]

Products made at the industry area generate profit when they leave the industry area. Nothing leaving, no profit. Lot of stuff leaving, lot of profit. If you don't have constant profit you may have too few trucks on your warehouses and when they all are out, no exports are happening (from the industry area to anywhere).

Adding more warehouses may even out the truck flow and make to profits more stable.

[grapplehoeker]

When I'm making a regular and consistent average of 100k per week, even if it dips and falls from time to time, it will never go below 50k per week, which in itself is plenty!
You should expect inconsistent profits and even losses during the time it takes to get a fully productive Industries production chain from natural resources through to the finished unique products. Never expect or rely upon exports of natural resources or even the intermediate products to be a reliable source of income, because that's not their function.
I protect myself with a good financial buffer during this time and that comes mostly from the consistent profit my Parks make. Developing 3 parks to their best potential first, before starting on my Industries complex, ensured I was always making very good money even while the fledgling Industries were losing money.
The real money maker is the sales of your unique products! Some of these factories will naturally have different rates of turnout, such as the shipyard SilveAgeFan mentioned (which I love btw). and this is why it is important to diversify and have many different unique product factories, so that there's always a finished unique product supply to compensate for those that are slower. This evens out the profit fluctuations.

[Pops]

All who claim that the ind dlc is busted over produce. Ill use forestry as an example, for forestry to start with u place 2 small plantations down and they will produce 9600 units. To balance that out u will need 3 sawmills who, all up, require 9600 units. Hovering your mouse over the buildings in the build menu will show u how much each building produces, not clicking on a built building, just hover over it. With said example you will find a small plantation produces 4800 unites each and sawmills require 3200 each, do the math. 2 x 4800 = 9600 and 3 x 3200 = 9600. I have pasted and copied a summary of what i made of production rates etc without efficiency bonuses etc, just the raw figures. Im not gonna tidy it up so its all in the right columns etc, you can do that if you are interested. I suggest you dont go placing any more than the bare minimum at start of making an ind district with the dlc.

Farms 1 small crop and 2 animal pastures
Forestry 2 small plantation and 3 sawmills
Ore 2 small mines and 3 small metals
With oil keep it as close to balance as you can as there isnt a definitive balance


Units and Materials
Each zone has one raw material and 2 processed materials associated with it. Those processed materials are then combined in unique factories to create finished goods. Buildings will list a production rate in thousands of units but storage and info screens will talk about tons or barrels. All materials are treated the same with 1,000 units equaling 1 ton or barrel.

Material Zone Level $/ton
Raw Forest Products Forestry raw material 20
Crops Farming raw material 20
Ores Mining raw material 30
Oil Drilling raw material 40
Planed Timber Forestry processed material 150
Paper Forestry processed material 150
Animal Products Farming processed material 150
Flours Farming processed material 150
Metal Mining processed material 225
Glass Mining processed material 225
Petroleum Drilling processed material 300
Plastics Drilling processed material 300
Goods Generic final product 1,000

Production and Storage
Raw materials are stored in buildings specific to each type of industry unlocked as a zone levels up.
A grain silo will always store crops. Processed materials are stored in generic warehouses unlocked as
a city grows. A warehouse can switch from storing plastics to flours. Both of these buildings can be
placed anywhere.

Raw materials are produced by extractors at a rate determined by the resource abundance where they are
located and capped by a max production rate specific to the building. Processors produce processed
materials from raw materials at a rate specific to each building. These buildings must be placed in an
industrial zone of the appropriate specialization and are unlocked as the zone levels up. The production
rate of these buildings increase as a zone levels and can be increased further with workers barracks.
The storage of these buildings can be increased with maintenance buildings.

Unique factories produce goods from processed materials at a rate specific to each building. That rate
can be decreased to 50% normal or increased to 150% normal. This does not affect storage in the building
but does affect upkeep. These buildings can be placed anywhere but only one of each type may be on a
map.

Processors and unique factories have internal storage for their inputs and outputs that are directly
related to their normal consumption and production rates. The storage is listed as a rounded whole number
of tons. Storage equals eight more than twice the weekly consumption or production rate. So if something
produces 3,200 units per week, that is 3.2 tons which means it's output storage is displayed as 14
(8+2*3.2=14.4). Normal consumption is always a multiple of .8 tons per week and can be calculated from
the input storage. Normal production is always listed on the buildings information popup.

Extractor Rates
All values are for original production rates. This is changed as zones level up and with worker's
barracks in the zone. Output is in tons per week. Profit takes into account upkeep but not water nor
electricity. Larger extractors cost more per ton extracted but smooth out production by shipping fewer
trucks at a quicker interval. For instance, 7 small tree plantations have the same weekly output as 3
large tree plantations but the small tree plantations will send out 7 trucks roughly every 12 days while
the large send out 3 trucks every 5 days.

Raw Forest Products
Building Output (ton) value/ton Output (value) Upkeep Profit/Week Price/ton
Small Tree Plantation 4.8 20 96 8 88 1.67
Medium Tree Plantation 8 20 160 24 136 3
Large Tree Plantation 11.2 20 224 40 184 3.57
Small Tree Sapling 6.4 20 128 16 112 2.50
Large Tree Sapling 9.6 20 192 32 160 3.33

Crops
Building Output Profit/Week Price/ton
Small Crop Field 4.8 84 2.50
Medium Crop Field 8 132 3.50
Large Crop Field 11.2 184 3.57
Small Fruit Field 4.8 84 2.50
Medium Fruit Field 8 132 3.50
Large Fruit Field 11.2 184 3.57

Ores
Building Output Profit/Week Price/ton
Small Ore Mine 4.8 128 3.33
Medium Ore Mine 8 192 6
Large Ore Mine 11.2 208 11.43
Small Ore Mine Undegrnd 6.4 160 5
Large Ore Mine Undrgrnd 9.6 224 6.67
Seabed Mining Vessel 8.8 204 6.81

Oil
Building Output Profit/Week Price/ton
Small Oil Pump 4.8 168 5
Large Oil Pump 8 272 6
Small Oil Drilling Rig 6.4 216 6.25
Large Oil Drilling Rig 9.6 304 8.33
Offshore Oil Platform 11.2 288 14.29

Processor Rates
All values are for original production rates. This is changed as zones level up and with worker's barracks
in the zone. Input and output are in tons per week. Profit takes into account upkeep but not water nor
electricity. Many processors create mass by taking in a smaller amount of raw materials to make a larger
amount of processed materials.

Planed Timber
Building Raw Forest Products Planed Timber Profit/week
Sawmill -3.2 3.2 256
Engineered Wood Plant -4.8 6.4 576

Paper
Building Raw Forest Products Paper Profit/week
Biomass Pellet Plant -3.2 3.2 176
Pulp Mill -4.8 6.4 512

Animal Products
Building Crops Animal Products Profit/week
Small Animal Pasture -3.2 2.4 256
Cattle Shed -4 3.2 240
Milking Parlor -4.8 4 312
Slaughterhouse -5.6 4.8 384
Large Animal Pasture -6.4 5.6 552

Flours
Building Crops Flours Profit/week
Flourmill -2.4 4 392

Metal
Building Ores Metal Profit/week
Ore Grinding Mill -3.2 3.2 432
Rotary Kiln Plant -4.8 6.4 976

Glass
Building Ores Glass Profit/week
Glass Manufacture Plant -3.2 3.2 368
Fiberglass Plant -4.8 6.4 912

Petroleum
Building Oil Petroleum Profit/week
Oil Sludge Pyro Plant -3.2 4 832
Waste Oil Refine Plant -4.8 8 1,808

Plastics
Building Oil Plastics Profit/week
Petrochemical Plant -3.2 4 752
Naphta Cracker Plant -4.8 8 1,728

Unique Factory Rates
All values are for 100% production rates and in tons. Weekly Profit includes cost of upkeep but not cost of
water and electricity. Goods are a shared output by all factories and the other materials are all inputs.

Building Goods Weekly Profit
Furniture Factory -3.2 Planed Tim -2.4 Paper 2.4 1,240
Bakery -4 Crops -3.2 Animal Prod -4.8 Flour 3.84 2,272
Industrial Steel Plant -6.4 Metal 6.4 4,160
Household Plastic Fact -3.2 Petrol -3.2 Plastic 3.2 800
Toy Factory -3.2 Planed Timber -3.2 Paper -3.2 Plastic 6.4 3,600
Printing Press -3.2 Paper -3.2 Plastic 3.84 1,840
Lemonade Factory -4.8 Crops -3.2 Glass 3.2 1,904
Electronics Factory -3.2 Metals -3.2 Glass -3.2 Plastic 6.72 3,040
Clothing Factory -3.2 Crops -3.2 Animal Prod -3.2 Plastic 6.4 4,016
Petroleum Refinery -3.2 Metal -3.2 Petrol -3.2 Plastic 8 4,000
Soft Paper Factory -3.2 Paper -3.2 Crops -3.2 Petrol -3.2 Plastic 7.68 4,256
Car Factory -3.2 Animal Prod -3.2 Metal -3.2 Glass -3.2 Plastic 8.32 3,040
Food Factory -3.2 Paper -3.2 Animal Prod -3.2 Flour -3.2 Plastic 9.6 6,000
Sneaker Factory -3.2 Paper -3.2 Crops -3.2 Petrol -3.2 Plastic 11.2 7,776
Modular House Factory -3.2 Plan Tim -3.2 Metal -3.2 Glass -3.2 Plastic 10.88 6,640
Shipyard -3.2 Anim Prod -3.2 Metal -3.2 Glass -3.2 Plastic 12.8 6,720

Totals
-12.8 Plan Tim -20 Paper
-18.4 Crops -12.8 Anim Prod -8 Flour
-22.4 Metal -16 Glass
-12.8 Petrol -40 Plastic
110.88 Goods 61,304 Profit/wk

The main problem with over producing, you end up sending all truck from crops to export so all animal pastures import and seeing that an exporting truck will be off map for an average of 15 minutes each per trip at 1x speed, it just causes your problem you have now.

[Meesmoth]

@Pops Just saying, since many users complain on mod pages because not reading their descriptions on how to use them, not all users will read that long wall of text. ;) Just saying btw.

[Pops]

nps, but it explains all production, costs and income of all 4 industries, if they dont read it they only have themselves to blame if they continue to have problems. Incidently, i dont have any problems with the dlc and couldnt care less if they read it or not. I tried to help.

[Stealthy]

Originally posted by Pops:

nps, but it explains all production, costs and income of all 4 industries, if they dont read it they only have themselves to blame if they continue to have problems. Incidently, i dont have any problems with the dlc and couldnt care less if they read it or not. I tried to help.

100%. And thanks for that. I've given up on helping people in many cases since they just don't listen and like to argue.

[Pops]

Originally posted by Stealthy:

Originally posted by Pops:

nps, but it explains all production, costs and income of all 4 industries, if they dont read it they only have themselves to blame if they continue to have problems. Incidently, i dont have any problems with the dlc and couldnt care less if they read it or not. I tried to help.

100%. And thanks for that. I've given up on helping people in many cases since they just don't listen and like to argue.

agree wholeheartedly. waste of time usually

[Rena]

I agree it can be confusing to see a pasture complaining of "not enough raw materials" when there's a crop field right there producing plenty. You really have to pay attention to the entire supply chain and flow, and the game isn't great at showing the details. Once you learn it, it's not too bad.

[Danson]

Originally posted by Pops:

nps, but it explains all production, costs and income of all 4 industries, if they dont read it they only have themselves to blame if they continue to have problems. Incidently, i dont have any problems with the dlc and couldnt care less if they read it or not. I tried to help.

I don't think anyone is saying there isn't a solution or that it's busted, it's just annoying. It's equally annoying that instead of the systems just being intuitive, I apparently have to read a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ novel in this topic to figure out what I need to build. If people are over producing and that's their problem, maybe the game telling us that in a clear way would be a good feature?

I appreciate the long post explaining everything but I don't think it helps your argument that the DLC is just fine when it took that much effort and writing to convey a solution. Boil it down into a single paragraph and you have a point but I shouldn't need a damn third party owner's manual just to figure out how the main features of the DLC function.

[scpool1986]

@ pops: I agree, somewhat, with your assessment that those who complain about the DLC being broken are most likely over producing. It is possible to have an evenly functioning industrial area and export as long as you make sure local demand for resources are met first. I’ve had industry areas raking in money on a stable basis while exporting and never once ran into the “not enough resources” problem. It all breaks down to knowing how the individual parts of the supply chain work and how they impact each other.

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by Danson:

I don't think anyone is saying there isn't a solution or that it's busted

I refer you to the title of this thread...

I appreciate the long post explaining everything but I don't think it helps your argument that the DLC is just fine when it took that much effort and writing to convey a solution. Boil it down into a single paragraph and you have a point but I shouldn't need a damn third party owner's manual just to figure out how the main features of the DLC function.

There's too much to this DLC to boil down to a single paragraph.
I would also add that I don't think this DLC is suited for any beginner and while all of that info may not be required by most veterans of the game, it should be required reading for new players or those that haven't yet grasped how production chains work in this or any game.
BTW well done Pops ;)

[Pops]

Thanx Grapple, as long as it helps 1 player im fine with that.

[Megas Stevros]

To be fair, once you've got an industry up and running you may as well have the unlimited money switched on. You don't even need to build a zone over a resource. Just buy the basic storage areas, switch them to FILL and then they will buy the raw materials in. You just build the secondary production buildings and voila, instant industry area.