Low ram and cpu usage, still get stuttering

[Painkiller]

Hi

I have 1700 assets and 40 or so mods. My rig is quite updated and at first I thought I was getting the lag and stuttering because of the workshop, but taking a look to the task manager I realized the ram usage in total was 9 - 10 gb (this game uses most of it, with some peaks but stable most of the time), cpu usage was really low, 25 - 50% at 4,3 ghz most of the time and the gpu usage with some peaks reaching 70% getting 60º C from time to time.

I though I was running short of ram and I increased the page file. Now I know i'm not exactly running out of it and the page file is not being used (it's there for just in case). The game runs the same after modifying the page file.

The Loading Screen mod shows 8.60 ram usage before starting, the number is in red so it tells me i'm out of ram.

I get 30 - 40 fps in the least urbanized areas, going downhill to 17 - 22 fps in the most. Whenever I take the camera out of the busy area, the fps increase. And I have just a little town, 2.500 pop at the moment, but fully detailed with a lot of props and trees.

What could it be? Even if the ram usage is not 100%, could the workshop items be affecting my fps anyway?

The game is playable but I think I should get more performance (imagine when I have +50.000 pop)

Specs:

i7 8700k
16 DDR4 ram
S. Evo 940 SSD 500gb + page file of 48gb
GTX1080ti

[onezerorising]

I was going to say that you shouldn't worry about fps until I saw your specs.

You still shouldn't worry about fps, but this does seem a little low: I have a vastly bigger city (200+k) a weaker system (i5 4670K/GTX 980) and get better fps values.

Take a long hard look at your assets. The telling factor is the GPU usage. I suspect that you have more than a few high-vertex-count assets, that sort of thing (I'm not a big asset user, so don't count me as an expert), but I rather think you have some assets in there that are seriously bogging you down.

All of which said, if my system was as nice as yours I'd be a happy bear :)

[MarkJohnson]

Originally posted by Painkiller:

Hi

I have 1700 assets and 40 or so mods. My rig is quite updated and at first I thought I was getting the lag and stuttering because of the workshop, but taking a look to the task manager I realized the ram usage in total was 9 - 10 gb (this game uses most of it, with some peaks but stable most of the time), cpu usage was really low, 25 - 50% at 4,3 ghz most of the time and the gpu usage with some peaks reaching 70% getting 60º C from time to time.

I though I was running short of ram and I increased the page file. Now I know i'm not exactly running out of it and the page file is not being used (it's there for just in case). The game runs the same after modifying the page file.

The Loading Screen mod shows 8.60 ram usage before starting, the number is in red so it tells me i'm out of ram.

I get 30 - 40 fps in the least urbanized areas, going downhill to 17 - 22 fps in the most. Whenever I take the camera out of the busy area, the fps increase. And I have just a little town, 2.500 pop at the moment, but fully detailed with a lot of props and trees.

What could it be? Even if the ram usage is not 100%, could the workshop items be affecting my fps anyway?

The game is playable but I think I should get more performance (imagine when I have +50.000 pop)

Specs:

i7 8700k
16 DDR4 ram
S. Evo 940 SSD 500gb + page file of 48gb
GTX1080ti

Most likely your fps drops are due to beautification mods that affect the GPU. This game put GPU on low priority, so it won't have very good FPS to begin with. You should expect about 35fps zoomed in a busy intersection. about 45fps at building zoom.

But mods that affect the gpu will hurt your fps the most. I know the dynamic resolution mod can really hurt fps if you crank it up.

[Painkiller]

Yeah, I have a lot of assets as said and I use a lot of props and custom content.

I use the Dynamic Resolution Mod set at 175% (close to 5k). Why? Well, the antialiasing of this game sucks big time and this setting makes it look decent. Could this be taxing my GPU? I mean, the GPU never goes up to 100% use and the case fans (x2) don't always turn on (they only start when the GPU hits the 60ºC mark so I don't think it's gonna melt lol). My native resolution is 1440p.

I can start building a few meters from the town and the fps recover, the same if I build at the other side of the map. It's not the whole map that lags.

BUT, I tried lowering the ingame graphics options and it's not worth it, same fps at the town. If I lower the Dynamic Resolution slider it looks horrible and the fps gain are insignificant.

Well, the fps go down to 17- 20 when I play with the camera, if I use an isometric angle well it runs smooth.

So, with 1.700 assets plus 40 mods and 16 gb I'm supposed to have lag because of it, but as you see, ram usage isn't 100% yet. I'm in a clue! Can these assets and mods lag my game no matter ram usage?

[MarkJohnson]

With the CPU getting priority, it gives less time to the GPU. If you increase graphics load, it will lag even worse. It will still get the same graphics time, but with more load on the GPU of mods, then the less time it gets to process everything, so fps drop.

Like I said. In a best case scenario, you will only get 35fps zoomed in. Any other GPU manipulating mods will lower your fps. It has nothing to do with load, it was to do with priority.

If you don't want to play on low graphics settings, then you will have to live with poor fps.

I recommend turning off fps counter. It will be much better for you without the constant reminder of low fps.

I have a similar system, and if I want nice pictures of my city, then I'll enable a few of the graphics mods and take some pics and then disable them when done. I;d rather have better gameplay than fps or prettier graphics.

But the assets won't lag your system. It will chew up your ram/vram though. And worse, of those 1,700 assets, you're only using a few hundred at most. The rest just sit in ram doing nothing but eating up ram.

[Painkiller]

I've done some tests a few hours ago. In summary:

- Disabling Dynamic Resolution mod made zero difference regarding the fps count. Perhaps a gain of 1 or 3 fps. Moving the slider until 250 and 300% (8k) made almost no difference. The game lagged a bit more but still playable (I'm not going to play at 8k anyway). When I did this, the GPU usage rose up to 90% (understandable).

Normally, my GPU usage stays at 40-50%. Increasing or decreasing the graphic quality made no real difference. I set the min resolution and the GPU usage decreased to 15% but fps were not meaningfully better.

So @-DI- rmjohnson144 I guess what you say is true but I can't explain why reducing the GPU usage to the minimun didn't improve fps.

- I disabled RICO and fps were the same.

- Ram usage kept on 70% (average), sometimes it went higher but never reached 100% like other players have said. So I doubt if I'm out of ram.

https://i.imgur.com/MyZOi6O.jpg

With 1700 assets and 40 mods, isn't supposed to lag 'cause of the RAM? As you see, the game never uses the 100% of it (and therefore, it doesn't use the page file).


Is there anything that could be limiting the amount of RAM the game is using hence performing not as good as it should? If the RAM usage fluctuates around 70% and 11gb are being used, then the game must be using only 8 gb for itself.

No clue at all

[MarkJohnson]

Your mods are affecting your FPS. RAM won't affect your FPS. RAM is just a storage device like your hard drive, USB flash drive, DVD, SSD, etc.

Your 1,700 assets are pointless. You city is only 2,500 and you are using only but a few of them. You really need to refrain from subscribing to anything and everything that looks good. Only subscribe to something you will use immediately.

Here's a couple thread that talk about mod that affect performance.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/255710/discussions/0/1697168437880677406/?tscn=1522261440#c1697168437884956010

https://steamcommunity.com/app/255710/discussions/0/1692659135915855227/

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1296453455

[Painkiller]

After 30 minutes of playtime, ram usage goes down to 4 gb approx, is it normal? How come 1.700 assets are hurting my fps if there's nothing being taxed at that moment. For instance, I took this pic and I was getting 50 fps on empty land, 30-40 fps in suburbs and 18-27 at an urbanized point.

https://i.imgur.com/qbQjTp7.jpg

Btw, I won't argue why the performance isn't the best. I have too many assets and that shouldn't be for free!

[Painkiller]

Update!

I just noticed that, even though the GPU usage was about 30%, the VRAM was almost fully maxed out. Has it anything to do with assets and mods being charged into the Vram -through the entire session- , while ram usage gets down to 40% after a while cuz it keeps the assets I'm currently using? I've looked up this issue and it seems the normal behaviour of the game. All assets are charged into ram at start, but after a while they are swapped to the Vram.

Dropping to 150% from 170% on the Dynamic Resolution, made the game feel more fluid (although fps were the same) and Vram went down from 10.5 out of 11 GB used to 9 Gb. 150% still looks good for my taste.

So, as you said, graphic load has a lot do regardless of assets and mods. With 1700 assets and so many mods I shouldn't expect high fps anyway. I just want to make sure my system has no bottlenecks or problem. I thought with such high end PC I wouldn't have to be toggling graphic options as the city grows Lol. There's no escape from that no matter what PC you have.

I was about to jump to 32gb from 16gb of ram. If ram is not the issue and is never being maxed out, I guess I shouldn't do it, or what do you think? I guess the order is 1. VRAM 2. RAM 3. Pagefile. I have a 1080ti with 11 gb of vram, so that' why Ram remains untouched with such low usage after a while. Can you confirm it?

[Chikuwu]

Originally posted by Painkiller:

I've done some tests a few hours ago. In summary:


With 1700 assets and 40 mods, isn't supposed to lag 'cause of the RAM? As you see, the game never uses the 100% of it (and therefore, it doesn't use the page file).


Is there anything that could be limiting the amount of RAM the game is using hence performing not as good as it should? If the RAM usage fluctuates around 70% and 11gb are being used, then the game must be using only 8 gb for itself.

No clue at all

Not using 100% of ram DOESNT mean Ram is not allocating any work resources on Pagefile.

Pagefile will be used when windows decides to. It doesnt need to be using 100% of your ram, sometimes even as low as 10% ram usage (depending on if the application asks for Pagefile allocation or not) will cause pagefile usage.

Its the assets youre using. youre using all your VRAM. This game hogs A LOT OF vram when using assets.

[Chikuwu]

Originally posted by -DI- rmjohnson144:

Your mods are affecting your FPS. RAM won't affect your FPS. RAM is just a storage device like your hard drive, USB flash drive, DVD, SSD, etc.

Your 1,700 assets are pointless. You city is only 2,500 and you are using only but a few of them. You really need to refrain from subscribing to anything and everything that looks good. Only subscribe to something you will use immediately.

Here's a couple thread that talk about mod that affect performance.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/255710/discussions/0/1697168437880677406/?tscn=1522261440#c1697168437884956010

https://steamcommunity.com/app/255710/discussions/0/1692659135915855227/

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1296453455

Wrong, RAM does affect your FPS in RAM heavy applications (Usage heavy, not ram capacity heavy) (that require a lot of I/O calls on one thread, one example being this game) So having FAST ram does help with this game.

Faster and more tighter timings on RAM --> CPU can allocate IO calls for faster calculation.

I can see a definite difference in FPS comparing my ram at 2000mhz vs 3200mhz on my setup.

[MarkJohnson]

Originally posted by Painkiller:

Update!

I just noticed that, even though the GPU usage was about 30%, the VRAM was almost fully maxed out. Has it anything to do with assets and mods being charged into the Vram -through the entire session- , while ram usage gets down to 40% after a while cuz it keeps the assets I'm currently using? I've looked up this issue and it seems the normal behaviour of the game. All assets are charged into ram at start, but after a while they are swapped to the Vram.

Dropping to 150% from 170% on the Dynamic Resolution, made the game feel more fluid (although fps were the same) and Vram went down from 10.5 out of 11 GB used to 9 Gb. 150% still looks good for my taste.

So, as you said, graphic load has a lot do regardless of assets and mods. With 1700 assets and so many mods I shouldn't expect high fps anyway. I just want to make sure my system has no bottlenecks or problem. I thought with such high end PC I wouldn't have to be toggling graphic options as the city grows Lol. There's no escape from that no matter what PC you have.

I was about to jump to 32gb from 16gb of ram. If ram is not the issue and is never being maxed out, I guess I shouldn't do it, or what do you think? I guess the order is 1. VRAM 2. RAM 3. Pagefile. I have a 1080ti with 11 gb of vram, so that' why Ram remains untouched with such low usage after a while. Can you confirm it?

If you watch the loading screen mod, you'll see the ram usage rise as it loads in assets. When it starts turning yellow, it is starting to use pagefile, when it turns red, it is full and still swapping stuff to page file. It also loads to vram at the same time.

When your game starts up, Windows 10 starts compressing RAM and swapping unused stuff in RAM to pagefile. Then it will keep compressing it. It kind of turns ram into a pagefile. That's why your cities.exe gets so small, but your vram stays high. Video cards can't compress vram. Probably because it slows down things to compress vram and then decompress ram over and over and you'd lose performance.

RAM compression has been around for a while. Linux has used it for a long time (ZRAM). I think even Androids use it as it is based on Linux. same with Apple. I know macOS (BSD) has used it for a long time as it is *nix based like Linux.

I did a quick Google and found this link if you care to read about it. It is very basic, but gives you a general idea of how it works.

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/ram-compression-improves-memory-responsiveness-windows-10/

But vram loads assets in memory whether you use them or not. It will eventual move the least used stuff to the pagefile when vram starts overflowing. But 90ish percent isn't being used.

But this game isn't RAM intensive at all (like all games). It just uses up RAM for storage is all.

Your best bet is to just unsubscribe to everything you aren't using. If you like it and may want to use it later, then add it to your favorites and you can subscribe to it later. But assets shouldn't affect your FPS directly. It's more of their effects on the game that affects FPS, from overloading the CPU or prematurely causing you to hit agent limits.

[Painkiller]

Thank you I attac and -DI- rmjohnson144 for your help.

@I attac: I have a 3000mhz capable ram (Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB) but it works at 2000mhz. I tried once to activate the XMP profile within Bios but it seems like it would overclock my CPU as well (And I don't want it). Do you know any safe way to overclock -only- the ram up to 3000 mhz?

@ -DI- rmjohnson144: Loading Screen Mod tells me I have 8.60 Gb loaded into ram, the number is in red, but I have 16 gb. When I start playing, ram usage is nearly 15 gb though.

Yeah I've been deactivating a lot of assets from the CM, so they don't load in game.

I can't have more VRAM because I can't swap my 1080ti for something better. If I upgrade to 32gb of ram, could I gain more performance, keeping my 1.600 assets and mods?

Is there any other way to decrease VRAM usage, as it seems by know the reason I'm having 15 - 23 fps when panning over my town (If I move the camera elsewhere, I get 25-30 fps, it seems that my town is too graphic-heavy xD ).

Dunno if I get more ram, it will release vram from the assets load, leaving room for graphic process.

Btw, I have 34.000 props already. The limit is 64,000 approx.

[MarkJohnson]

Originally posted by Painkiller:

Thank you I attac and -DI- rmjohnson144 for your help.

@I attac: I have a 3000mhz capable ram (Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB) but it works at 2000mhz. I tried once to activate the XMP profile within Bios but it seems like it would overclock my CPU as well (And I don't want it). Do you know any safe way to overclock -only- the ram up to 3000 mhz?

Setting XMP only affect your RAM and nothing else. Increasing RAM will have no affect. Your 8700k is already optimized to run at 2666MHz. Which it should be by default. There should be no harm running 3200MHz. But if you're below 2666MHz, then you should be at 2666 or higher. Check your XMP profiles. There are usually more than 1.

@ -DI- rmjohnson144: Loading Screen Mod tells me I have 8.60 Gb loaded into ram, the number is in red, but I have 16 gb. When I start playing, ram usage is nearly 15 gb though.

That's because you have other apps running and ram compression becomes uncompressed when it use.

Yeah I've been deactivating a lot of assets from the CM, so they don't load in game.

deactivating may not stop them from loading. they could possibly stay in RAM.

I can't have more VRAM because I can't swap my 1080ti for something better.

Your 1080 Ti is already overkill and has nothing to do with any issues you are experiencing. It is not any part of any equation.

If I upgrade to 32gb of ram, could I gain more performance, keeping my 1.600 assets and mods?

No, RAM doesn't have any performance impact. Like I said already your RAM is just the same storage like your drives/usb, cd, etc

Is there any other way to decrease VRAM usage, as it seems by know the reason I'm having 15 - 23 fps when panning over my town (If I move the camera elsewhere, I get 25-30 fps, it seems that my town is too graphic-heavy xD ).

As I already said. Your FPS issues are purely mod related and nothing else!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your system other than workshop.

Permanently set the -noWorkshop -disableMods flags and you'll never have another issues with the game!

Case closed, unsubscribed.

[Yohan]

mine is even worst below 19 fps but it works fine like the normal one based on my experience

[Chikuwu]

Originally posted by Painkiller:

Thank you I attac and -DI- rmjohnson144 for your help.

@I attac: I have a 3000mhz capable ram (Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB) but it works at 2000mhz. I tried once to activate the XMP profile within Bios but it seems like it would overclock my CPU as well (And I don't want it). Do you know any safe way to overclock -only- the ram up to 3000 mhz?

@ -DI- rmjohnson144: Loading Screen Mod tells me I have 8.60 Gb loaded into ram, the number is in red, but I have 16 gb. When I start playing, ram usage is nearly 15 gb though.

Yeah I've been deactivating a lot of assets from the CM, so they don't load in game.

I can't have more VRAM because I can't swap my 1080ti for something better. If I upgrade to 32gb of ram, could I gain more performance, keeping my 1.600 assets and mods?

Is there any other way to decrease VRAM usage, as it seems by know the reason I'm having 15 - 23 fps when panning over my town (If I move the camera elsewhere, I get 25-30 fps, it seems that my town is too graphic-heavy xD ).

Dunno if I get more ram, it will release vram from the assets load, leaving room for graphic process.

Btw, I have 34.000 props already. The limit is 64,000 approx.

You dont need to "Overclock" your ram.

All newer BIOSes usually have set ram speed values, just add it with "manual" profile (you should NEVER use Windows-sided software to meddle with BIOS values, do that ALWAYS from Bios.) in Bios, then set the RAM speed and you can leave latencies at automatic values.

Go to overclocking page (or CPU page) in your motherboard, adjust to "manual" profile, add the correct RAM value you want, and voila, speed is what its supposed to be.
Use 2800mhz if you want to keep it "low but good"

XMP Profiles usually just warn about "adjusting fan speeds" but some motherboards do add some small overclock (usually with a too high voltage) so everything should be done manually.

What Motherboard do you have?