Which is the worst Kingdom Hearts game, and why is it Birth by Sleep?

[Miketopus]

I am so frustrated with Birth By Sleep and its arbitrary difficulty spikes. Bosses that are unstoppable, and punish you by forcing you back a screen and undid the gauntlets of enemies you have to fight to get to them. Horrible wooden voice acting. A tepid plot that doesn't interest me at all.

Should I just skip this game forever? I am so frustrated with it and it is such an enormous drop in quality from KH 1 and 2.

[Arc]

I'd say outright the majority of the series are meh to bad. The guys they have working on the "command deck" games simply aren't remotely close to as good as the main team.
Having to exit a fight, enter a menu, then equip a second "fire" to be able to use it twice in a row rather than just freely using my MP as I want as in KH1/2 is not fun.
Its not balanced, either, since I can just stick megaflare/baloonga/insert broken command here in every slot
Both BBS and DDD have enemies who can and will simply decide not to take hitstun in the middle of a combo (even if its hasted via ventus dimension link in BBS) and hit you anyways, further incentive's mindless invincible attack or broken command spam because the game will punish you for playing fair. This is even worse in DDD where Riku's core gimmick is changing his basic attacks... which enemies just ignore being hit by (while Sora's gimmick is more varied, powerful and completely invincible)
CoM just boils down to spamming sleights 50 times in a row and Re; CoM just ups it to 150 times in a row since you're no longer hitting every enemy with your attacks.
Re; Coded is the only command deck game to actually have fair feeling combat with proper hitstun, but its so gimmick heavy.
BBS is overall... okay. But you have to play around its faults. And it wants you to beat it 3 times to get the whole story. Which isn't even a good story. I never bothered; Ventus is too boring to play and as a character and Aqua's story already bored me with its weird inconsistencies (why is she struggling more than Terra with the same enemies when she's stated to be the more talented one and the only actual master? Does that title mean literally nothing?) and kind of pointlessness (Ventus is the centre of the story, Terra is the guy with the most compelling arc, Aqua is... the girl one, that's her gimmick, she has no real connection to anything beyond looking for Ventus, who spends nearly the entire game ignoring she exists in favor of Terra)

Its why its such a shame 2 is the game broken in this port for most people. If BBS is a 7/10, ReCom is like a 3 and 1 is 9, 2 is a 17

[mdesaleah]

^Some of your complaints do have explanations for them, but spoilers.

Eraqus isnt exactly a faultless character. So who's to say the "exam" isnt just a waste of time? He tries to kill Ventus later and future games like Dark Road do emphasize how he fully goes with whatever light is telling him. While Xehanort is more open to actually analyzing things, but ends up taking to wrong path later. Characters believe the exam is a pure test, but is it really? Its a case of trusting the person in charge because they have a title, but that doesnt mean everything they say is correct or true either.

Aqua being "just girl" is mostly cause her actual character and story hasnt started. BBS is basically one big Prologue for her. Which is why she gets more involved starting with the Final Episode and Secret Episode of BBS, and gets 0.2 to be the main character and 3 has big moments with her as well.

Saying that they "blame Terra unfairly" is something you're meant to catch too. Most of the cast in BBS is biased. Eraqus especially, but considering Terra and Aqua and Ventus learn under him, then its easy to assume that they have been told to have those biases as well

[Arc]

I'm confused 'cause I never said anything about blaming Tera, but I checked last page, CTRL+F "blame", 0 results.
Who are you talking to with that one?

[mdesaleah]

Arc původně napsal:

I'm confused 'cause I never said anything about blaming Tera, but I checked last page, CTRL+F "blame", 0 results.
Who are you talking to with that one?

Might have just assumed that after you mentioned Terra. Cause thats often a complaint with the story that many people have. Where characters keep saying that Terra is in the wrong and to go back home, when he's mostly just being manipulated. I think it makes sense if you view it as biased Eraqus sharing what he thinks he knows to his students, which ends up leading to their downfall. Its a lot like (late DDD spoiler) trusting DiZ in 2 saying that Nobodies have no hearts because he talks like he knows what he's saying even though everything has pointed otherwise

[Arc]

Yea I got no complaints about Tera beyond him outclassing the others so much for no real reason, he's actually my favourite of the three, being the only one I actually particularly like
Ventus and Aqua have the combined charisma of a mouldy shoe

[mdesaleah]

Arc původně napsal:

Yea I got no complaints about Tera beyond him outclassing the others so much for no real reason, he's actually my favourite of the three, being the only one I actually particularly like
Ventus and Aqua have the combined charisma of a mouldy shoe

In BBS, Terra is my favorite. He really is the main character there.

Overall, I prefer Aqua but thats for the Final and Secret Episodes, and all the sequel material she gets.

[Arc]

mdesaleah původně napsal:

Arc původně napsal:

Yea I got no complaints about Tera beyond him outclassing the others so much for no real reason, he's actually my favourite of the three, being the only one I actually particularly like
Ventus and Aqua have the combined charisma of a mouldy shoe

In BBS, Terra is my favorite. He really is the main character there.

Overall, I prefer Aqua but thats for the Final and Secret Episodes, and all the sequel material she gets.

I heard 3 sucks and Re; Mind """""fixes"""""" it, but far as I can tell from the google, all Re; Mind content is post-game crap, so that would mean 3 STILL sucks until you beat it, so imma wait for a proper sale.
Especially after the crapfest this collection turned out to be.
Aqua was easily the most fun to play in BBS at least and the concept of a magic master is cool, even if Sora is such an absurd mary sue its kind of a meaningless distinction

[sumolagann]

Arc původně napsal:

mdesaleah původně napsal:

In BBS, Terra is my favorite. He really is the main character there.

Overall, I prefer Aqua but thats for the Final and Secret Episodes, and all the sequel material she gets.

I heard 3 sucks and Re; Mind """""fixes"""""" it, but far as I can tell from the google, all Re; Mind content is post-game crap, so that would mean 3 STILL sucks until you beat it, so imma wait for a proper sale.
Especially after the crapfest this collection turned out to be.
Aqua was easily the most fun to play in BBS at least and the concept of a magic master is cool, even if Sora is such an absurd mary sue its kind of a meaningless distinction

3 is definitely more in line with 1 and 2 and pretty far away from the other games. Feel like while it could be better, it just gets hated on unfairly imo.

[mdesaleah]

sumolagann původně napsal:

Arc původně napsal:

I heard 3 sucks and Re; Mind """""fixes"""""" it, but far as I can tell from the google, all Re; Mind content is post-game crap, so that would mean 3 STILL sucks until you beat it, so imma wait for a proper sale.
Especially after the crapfest this collection turned out to be.
Aqua was easily the most fun to play in BBS at least and the concept of a magic master is cool, even if Sora is such an absurd mary sue its kind of a meaningless distinction

3 is definitely more in line with 1 and 2 and pretty far away from the other games. Feel like while it could be better, it just gets hated on unfairly imo.

Not to mention that Remind wasnt just post-game. It also rebalanced things like adding new attacks and options.

Remind is to 3, what Final Mix was to 2. And many dont realize how barren 2 Original was without the Final Mix updates. You can't even dodge roll in Original 2, and the best boss in the main game was just a cutscene.

3/Remind also has boss staggering "revenge value" and all that. So no more of the BBS/DDD random staggering. Its not trying to just be 1 or 2, but its clear they took strong notes from all the other games they made. The data battles in 3 also are generally more fun than 2s. Less gimmick fights like Demyx and more of the big 1:1 fights that people remember.

[Arc]

Aren't the new attacks and options re;mind adds post-game stuff also, or tied specifically to critical? That's what the google tells me.
Either way they don't deserve rushing out for 3 when 1, 2, BBS AND re; com all literally don't work right.

[sumolagann]

mdesaleah původně napsal:

sumolagann původně napsal:

3 is definitely more in line with 1 and 2 and pretty far away from the other games. Feel like while it could be better, it just gets hated on unfairly imo.

Not to mention that Remind wasnt just post-game. It also rebalanced things like adding new attacks and options.

Remind is to 3, what Final Mix was to 2. And many dont realize how barren 2 Original was without the Final Mix updates. You can't even dodge roll in Original 2, and the best boss in the main game was just a cutscene.

3/Remind also has boss staggering "revenge value" and all that. So no more of the BBS/DDD random staggering. Its not trying to just be 1 or 2, but its clear they took strong notes from all the other games they made. The data battles in 3 also are generally more fun than 2s. Less gimmick fights like Demyx and more of the big 1:1 fights that people remember.

Not played with remind dlc, was holding off for pc. So yeah i'm sure with new content and improvements it's in a pretty good state.

Oh and yeah, hopefully square patches all the games and fixes them up, but there is no sense in releasing just one part when they're all already available.

[mdesaleah]

Arc původně napsal:

Aren't the new attacks and options re;mind adds post-game stuff also, or tied specifically to critical? That's what the google tells me.
Either way they don't deserve rushing out for 3 when 1, 2, BBS AND re; com all literally don't work right.

You know how 2 Final Mix added some new air finishers? Like the magnet burst. 3Remind is like that. A lot of what it added was post-game, but there were still balance additions like adding new air finishers and things to make the fights better. The option to disable the flashy attraction finishers is also there.

I don't really get your last point about rushing things. The PC ports were all at once. And this collection is the PS4 Console collections on PC, while 3Remind is a bundle of 3 with its Final Mix DLC already added.

Square is still pretty bad with PC ports, but I think 3s is as good as it is because its already an Unreal 4 game. So porting it over was probably simpler. Them never patching the pre-3 games even though theyve been on Epic for years was the big problem. They have no excuse there.

[Arc]

Me rushing out to buy 3. I'll wait to see if they even DO fix this, then play this if they do, then think about 3.
Thanks for info thoughever er

[Tomcat]

I didn't liked Birth By Sleep either same as Dream Drop Distance because it's just all about Spamming Commands and the Dodge button... thats about it.

Not only that but completing Birth By Sleep 100% it's also tedious asf because you have to do everything (including mini-games like the Command Board) three times... and the secret bosses on this game are just not fun at all, especially with Terra because they dont let you catch a single break... with Ventus and Aqua its fine because you can do pretty much infinite dodges with both but with Terra its another story.

The game have so many flaws on his combat system and design that you have to cheese your way with OP commands like Thunder Surge otherwise it would be really, really hard to complete everything.

[Xemejor]

Miketopus původně napsal:

I am so frustrated with Birth By Sleep and its arbitrary difficulty spikes. Bosses that are unstoppable, and punish you by forcing you back a screen and undid the gauntlets of enemies you have to fight to get to them. Horrible wooden voice acting. A tepid plot that doesn't interest me at all.

Should I just skip this game forever? I am so frustrated with it and it is such an enormous drop in quality from KH 1 and 2.

are you trolling?
BBS is one of the Best .
In 2010 it was my favourite one.