Which is the worst Kingdom Hearts game, and why is it Birth by Sleep?

[Miketopus]

I am so frustrated with Birth By Sleep and its arbitrary difficulty spikes. Bosses that are unstoppable, and punish you by forcing you back a screen and undid the gauntlets of enemies you have to fight to get to them. Horrible wooden voice acting. A tepid plot that doesn't interest me at all.

Should I just skip this game forever? I am so frustrated with it and it is such an enormous drop in quality from KH 1 and 2.

[sumolagann]

and then there is the monopoly part... I'd just push through, maybe just play it in bursts so it's less annoying. I do agree though, I think that was the worst one for me

[Seb | セビ]

recoded

[mdesaleah]

You do need to finish it, cause its one of the most relevant games. Commands are much more useful than regular combos, and especially magic. Also Aqua and Ven can infinitely dodge to stay invincible, Terra cannot.

But I do agree with the voice acting. Which is definitely a Voice Direction problem, cause characters like Aqua and Terra are SO much better with their lines in later games.

So I assume they just werent directed properly compared to how they are later.

[mdesaleah]

Originally posted by Seb | セビ:

recoded

Recoded is the least "directly relevant game". And if any should be skipped, its this one.

But in terms of analyzing characters, its actually pretty decent. Its a retelling of KH1, but with Riku and Sora being able to talk about each other. The biggest issue with that is that it isnt the real Sora or the real Riku, but it can still give you insight. In terms of story its almost nothing, but it does have some really good character moments.

And that DDD goes for something similar but with the actual Sora and Riku, and does it much better. And its also not just a retelling but going somewhere new too.

[Weruat]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Originally posted by Seb | セビ:

recoded

Recoded is the least "directly relevant game". And if any should be skipped, its this one.

But in terms of analyzing characters, its actually pretty decent. Its a retelling of KH1, but with Riku and Sora being able to talk about each other. The biggest issue with that is that it isnt the real Sora or the real Riku, but it can still give you insight. In terms of story its almost nothing, but it does have some really good character moments.

And that DDD goes for something similar but with the actual Sora and Riku, and does it much better. And its also not just a retelling but going somewhere new too.

I think Recoded atleast has some decent gameplay to make up for it. DDD is a game I'm hard pressed to remember strongly outside of liking the Dream Eater designs....Then again a bad KH Game is still a solid game for the most part.

[Silyon]

BBS has an abusable battle system in exactly the same manner as Chain of memories. You build your deck around a singularly busted command and sommersault your way to victory without significant trouble until the end-game bosses. The moment you get the various "surge" or minefield commands you've basically won the game. Which is no different from building your CoM deck to abuse a specific busted sleight, really.

Gameplay aside, I'd say BBS is slightly better than CoM in regards to it's storytelling but held back by the sheer amount of minigame chaff stuck into it, plus the need to play it thrice for the full story and completionism in general. CoM is better for it's more streamlined and focused nature, but has it's own share of QoL issues. And both are a misery to 100% for different reasons.

The two games are equivalent in quality by my book. I favor BBS over Re;CoM, but behind the original GBA CoM. And both lie well behind the numbered titles.

[Anime-Profile-Picture]

Its CoM, BBS is one of the best.

[WuffWabbit]

Originally posted by Miketopus:

I am so frustrated with Birth By Sleep and its arbitrary difficulty spikes. Bosses that are unstoppable, and punish you by forcing you back a screen and undid the gauntlets of enemies you have to fight to get to them. Horrible wooden voice acting. A tepid plot that doesn't interest me at all.

Should I just skip this game forever? I am so frustrated with it and it is such an enormous drop in quality from KH 1 and 2.

BBS had such lackluster worlds. They all felt like a chore to get through because only the story was remotely good, and even then, it still doesn't compete with KH1, 2, COM, Days, or even 3.

[KaosReigns]

Originally posted by WuffWabbit:

BBS had such lackluster worlds. They all felt like a chore to get through because only the story was remotely good, and even then, it still doesn't compete with KH1, 2, COM, Days, or even 3.

The reason you are feeling this way, is because we go through the worlds 3 separate times. For each of the characters.

While there is some differences between the 3, its ultimately the same worlds.

It also has the issue of a LOT of the characters having that type of amnesia, that I absolutely despise. Hercules for example. He saw, and knew what a keyblade was LONG before Sora, and yet, when Sora shows up, its like hes never seen that before.

While I do understand its a form of retcon, it is also really jarring to insert things like this.

We also got an explanation in BBS about why Cinderella, (A princess of heart) but not her world. This is because the events of BBS destroy her world, and she is taken captive for 10+ years, waiting for the events of KH1.

BBS was never about the worlds themselves, and more of telling what happened to the lost masters. Which I think is wrong personally.

I truly think the masters they talk about during the majority of KH3, were the 4 from Union X. NOT Ventus, Terra or Aqua. Of the three, only Aqua was actually a master.

[ShinkuTear]

Look, I know we all hate that infernal Bibbity Boppity Boo song (is there a mod to replace music?), but BBS has actual quality as a game outside of that musical abomination.

BBS could have handled events better rather than the 3 heroes repeating the worlds 3 times, but at least the first 70% or so isn't a re-tread of another game with a questionable combat system.

If you do multiple playthroughs, there is area re-tread but each protag is hitting up different sections of those worlds, different events occurring in them, which I personally felt comes off better than what CoM and Re:CoM do.

[Toasty]

Originally posted by Miketopus:

Should I just skip this game forever? I am so frustrated with it and it is such an enormous drop in quality from KH 1 and 2.

Yes.

The team that made KH1 and KH2 (Tokyo team) is NOT the team that made BBS, DDD, and KH3 (Osaka team).

BBS and DDD are terrible games with bad stories. I'm struggling to stomach replaying them again on PC myself. Do yourself a favor and skip to KH3. There's an animated retelling of all the information you need available on the main menu of that game. Despite being made by Osaka team, KH3 is a huge improvement from their previous games.

[mdesaleah]

Originally posted by Toasty:

Originally posted by Miketopus:

Should I just skip this game forever? I am so frustrated with it and it is such an enormous drop in quality from KH 1 and 2.

Yes.

The team that made KH1 and KH2 (Tokyo team) is NOT the team that made BBS, DDD, and KH3 (Osaka team).

BBS and DDD are terrible games with bad stories. I'm struggling to stomach replaying them again on PC myself. Do yourself a favor and skip to KH3. There's an animated retelling of all the information you need available on the main menu of that game. Despite being made by Osaka team, KH3 is a huge improvement from their previous games.

"Terrible games with bad stories"

Eh. If you try to just sum up what happens in any KH game in a factual linear order, you'll end up with something a lot messier than what the main intent really is.

If you look at what the story is trying to say about its characters, thats where the series shines. DDD being a fantastic story for its characters (its practically "Here is Riku's character", The Game. It even makes you take a quiz on the character at the very end if you want the true final scene), but a messy series of reveals at the end that (while foreshadowed) come crashing all at once to confuse you on purpose.

BBS, while mostly being setup, does also focus on character relationships and parallels. And also adds a very important scene that Nomura even claims the entire game was made to highlight. No, its probably not what youd think.

[Toasty]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Eh. If you try to just sum up what happens in any KH game in a factual linear order, you'll end up with something a lot messier than what the main intent really is.

If you look at what the story is trying to say about its characters, thats where the series shines. DDD being a fantastic story for its characters (its practically "Here is Riku's character", The Game. It even makes you take a quiz on the character at the very end if you want the true final scene), but a messy series of reveals at the end that (while foreshadowed) come crashing all at once to confuse you on purpose.

BBS, while mostly being setup, does also focus on character relationships. And also adds a very important scene that Nomura even claims the entire game was made to highlight

The characters are awful. The implication that the BBS trio have a relationship resembling the KH1 trio is laughable when you see how awkward and forced every interaction they have is. 2 of the 3 need to be stupid constantly to advance the plot.

DDD's story was a mess that has (in my opinion) permanently damaged the series. It introduced so many convoluted concepts and ridiculous reveals that undermine almost the entire story before and after.

The stories being bad wouldn't be such a big deal if the games weren't agonizing to play. Someone really thought it was a good idea to make you play BBS three times to see the ending.

[mdesaleah]

Originally posted by Toasty:

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Eh. If you try to just sum up what happens in any KH game in a factual linear order, you'll end up with something a lot messier than what the main intent really is.

If you look at what the story is trying to say about its characters, thats where the series shines. DDD being a fantastic story for its characters (its practically "Here is Riku's character", The Game. It even makes you take a quiz on the character at the very end if you want the true final scene), but a messy series of reveals at the end that (while foreshadowed) come crashing all at once to confuse you on purpose.

BBS, while mostly being setup, does also focus on character relationships. And also adds a very important scene that Nomura even claims the entire game was made to highlight

The characters are awful. The implication that the BBS trio have a relationship resembling the KH1 trio is laughable when you see how awkward and forced every interaction they have is. 2 of the 3 need to be stupid constantly to advance the plot.

DDD's story was a mess that has (in my opinion) permanently damaged the series. It introduced so many convoluted concepts and ridiculous reveals that undermine almost the entire story before and after.

The stories being bad wouldn't be such a big deal if the games weren't agonizing to play. Someone really thought it was a good idea to make you play BBS three times to see the ending.

Did DDD though? Other than the reveal of time travel, the other reveals were all foreshadowed previously. A lot of things that were right in your face but many missed until the reveal. Xigbar's eye and design changes halfway through BBS. Comparing him at the start of the game to the end, so that reveal was planned (same with him in 2 and 358 mentioning older keyblade wielders that he's fought). Nobodies being able to grow hearts has been teased since 2 and heavily teased in 358, so that reveal is just confirming an assumption anyone could have made. Even the X on character's names while it is silly, a player could think "why ARE all the organization members "X" named?" Even Kairi being some kind of "Sora tracker" unwilling pawn which Melody of Memories emphasized again has been a thing since KH1's Ansem Report 11. This will probably be explained more in KH4.

Although the main story of DDD, looking beyond just plot points, is Riku character development. For anyone wanting Riku character development after 2, then DDD is the perfect game for that. And as the secondary lead of the series, his character development is really important.

BBS 3 Times wasnt really a problem. It already has really short worlds, and each character has their own sections within many of them. KH2 has you go to worlds twice with less changes than that, so it just kind of feels like that.

[Toasty]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Did DDD though? Other than the reveal of time travel, the other reveals were all foreshadowed previously. A lot of things that were right in your face but many missed until the reveal. Xigbar's eye and design changes halfway through BBS. Comparing him at the start of the game to the end, so that reveal was planned (same with him in 2 and 358 mentioning older keyblade wielders that he's fought). Nobodies being able to grow hearts has been teased since 2 and heavily teased in 358, so that reveal is just confirming an assumption anyone could have made. Even the X on character's names while it is silly, a player could think "why ARE all the organization members "X" named?" Even Kairi being some kind of "Sora tracker" which Melody of Memories emphasized again has been a thing since KH1's Ansem Report 11.

Although the main story of DDD, looking beyond just plot points, is Riku character development. For anyone wanting Riku character development after 2, then DDD is the perfect game for that. And as the secondary lead of the series, his character development is really important.

BBS 3 Times wasnt really a problem. It already has really short worlds, and each character has their own sections within many of them. KH2 has you go to worlds twice with less changes than that, so it just kind of feels like that.

Time travel is primarily what I'm talking about. There are way too many breaks in the consistency of the story from BBS and DDD to count, but adding that was opening pandora's box. They also gave Lea a keyblade as if BBS didn't do enough damage to the idea already.

I feel like Riku's character development was already done very well in KH2, so it felt like a lot of retreading old ground.

And of all the things to 1-up after KH2, having to revisit worlds should not have been one of them. It was a chore in KH2, and it's so much worse in BBS when you're seeing (mostly) the same events and fighting the same bosses 3 times.