How powerful is Kingdom Hearts 2 magic?

[Tag365]

What do you think of the magic abilities in Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix, and what tips and tricks do you want to give to users to maximize its power?

[mdesaleah]

Reflect.

[Silyon]

Reflect OP. Spam while MP > 1, watch most of the game evaporate. Save the last trickle of MP for Cure, as needed.

Drive forms change the attack patterns of spells. Spells are particularly powerful for Wisdom and Master forms.

Magnet into Thunder is great for groups.

[Tag365]

Originally posted by Silyon:

Spells are particularly powerful for Wisdom and Master forms.

Why isn't it that much more powerful for Final Form?

[Silyon]

Originally posted by Tag365:

Originally posted by Silyon:

Spells are particularly powerful for Wisdom and Master forms.

Why isn't it that much more powerful for Final Form?

Wisdom straight up gives you a higher magic stat than Final Form, on top of making the hitboxes for most spells larger or hit multiple times. The Master Magic ability from Master Form lets you chain spells infinitely without having to pause for a combo-finisher. Final Form does neither, merely adds extra keyblade hits to the spell effects.

Doesn't mean spells are bad in Final Form, basically everything Final Form does is OP as hell and it's hard to call anything it does "bad". But personally speaking, I've found Final Form's regular combos has you zipping around into attacks that you might otherwise avoid, and keeping your MP for heals is a smart idea.

[ShinkuTear]

The main spell series as basic Sora are gonna be Reflect, Magnet, and Thunder. Depending on your form or situation, Fire can be good... but mostly as Fira or Firaga, not Fire itself. Basic Fire is so small, taking advantage of its power is difficult.

Blizzard can be useful earlier in the game to snipe Large Body and whatever the cars are called, since they can both be a pain, but later on Blizzards sniping value isn't quite as significant, you have more tools to help deal with the problems.

Reflect, especially the ara and aga forms, is a surprisingly potent spell. You are invincible for a period of time, and any attacks that would have hit you (or just came close enough) will cause the spell to deal notable damage in an area around you.

Wisdom form doesn't provide any Magic stat according to the menus, and due to not having Synch Blade it has worse visible Magic stat than Master and Final forms. If Wisdom provides any stat benefit, it's something that isn't directly visible normally, which is IMO pesky, benefits should be made clearer -_-

Combine this lack of visible perk with short Form durations when you first get Wisdom and with Forms being punished in most event battles, and it's pretty easy to overlook Wisdom as an actual combat tool, and see it as just a source of some Sora abilities.

It's not until Final when one can safely use a Form in an event battle and not have risk of Anti Form triggering (which is the same as Game Over on Proud and Critical), and Final form Firaga is one of the strongest boss shredding options in the game, with the competition being used in cases where either Final is not available, or where Fire damage is blocked.

[Tag365]

Originally posted by ShinkuTear:

Wisdom form doesn't provide any Magic stat according to the menus, and due to not having Synch Blade it has worse visible Magic stat than Master and Final forms. If Wisdom provides any stat benefit, it's something that isn't directly visible normally, which is IMO pesky, benefits should be made clearer -_-

Combine this lack of visible perk with short Form durations when you first get Wisdom and with Forms being punished in most event battles, and it's pretty easy to overlook Wisdom as an actual combat tool, and see it as just a source of some Sora abilities.

What are the best abilities of Wisdom Form that should be capitalized on?

[SolidSora]

Magic in KH2FM is very good, but needs to be used with knowledge:

Fire: Has 2 big uses, first as reliable stun AoE dmg, which really helps with the small heartless that like to go into the ground. The second is much more specific, as Final Form Fire without a finisher has special properties that can cheese post-game bosses

Blizzard: Very good against Data Axel, but otherwise often outshined by thunder, since its a straight projectivel. Can deal good dmg still

Thunder: Great pin point AoE DMG, nothing more, nothing less

Magnet: Firstly, best mob-control tool on any level. Secondly casting this counts as a finisher, so with combo finisher plus it can combo with stuff like finishing leap. Especially on Crit this makes mob-fights pretty easy

Reflect: The most OP spell in the game, due to it being so cheap. Can easily be spammed and the counterdmg is pretty high. Its not an auto-win button, but learning to use reflect is one of the most important steps to really get into KH2FMs deeper combat-stuff

Cure: The "Oh ♥♥♥♥" Button. Pretty usefull, but need to keep in mind that this disables you from casting other spells, since it always drains the MP bar. A usefull tip here: If you Ether on an near depleated MP bar, you get it back fully, if you Ether on a recharging MP Bar you only get back half of the full rechargetime

[andreasaspenberg575]

magic was severily nerfed in kingdom hearts 2 compared to kingdom hearts 1. you can barely use it because then you are out of mana.

[Scipo0419]

I'd like to add that aside from Reflect, Cure, and Magnet, until you get the -aga variant of the spell it's not useful for damage in 90% of situations. Using it to get around Large Bodies/Fat Bandits, and Hot Rods is about all it's good for except in niche situations (Pirates in Port Royal)

Once you get -aga variants, Thundaga in particular is your go to for regular enemies with Firaga (specifically in Final Form and Wisdom Form) being usable. The reason Firaga is so good in those forms is the Mobile Magic ability. Since fire is an AoE centered on Sora, the ability to move that aoe around with you makes it that much more potent. And with Final Form adding keyblade attacks it deals the most dps in the game when Bond of Flame is equipped.

[SolidSora]

Originally posted by andreasaspenberg575:

magic was severily nerfed in kingdom hearts 2 compared to kingdom hearts 1. you can barely use it because then you are out of mana.

Thats definitly not true. Magic does deal more than enough dmg, even at the early versions. The difference is, that Magic is now a more specific tool, that also factors into your normal combos. You cant spam Magic, like in KH1, since you cant really play a mostly caster-like Sora. But in terms of how magic enhances the combat and your options, they are vital and fairly well balanced options, even reflect being op is just a minor thing, with how little magic it costs

[Scipo0419]

Originally posted by SolidSora:

Originally posted by andreasaspenberg575:

magic was severily nerfed in kingdom hearts 2 compared to kingdom hearts 1. you can barely use it because then you are out of mana.

Thats definitly not true. Magic does deal more than enough dmg, even at the early versions. The difference is, that Magic is now a more specific tool, that also factors into your normal combos. You cant spam Magic, like in KH1, since you cant really play a mostly caster-like Sora. But in terms of how magic enhances the combat and your options, they are vital and fairly well balanced options, even reflect being op is just a minor thing, with how little magic it costs

I just finished my 100% critical mode run, and prior to -aga spells (not counting reflect, cure, and magnet) I didn't touch magic aside from Port Royal pirates because every time I tried the damage was pitiful. I'm not even talking about spamming it as a "caster" but weaving it in like I did in KH1. Magic is severely nerfed in KH2, at least until -aga spells (and again ignoring Reflect and Magnet)

[SolidSora]

Originally posted by Scipo0419:

Originally posted by SolidSora:

Thats definitly not true. Magic does deal more than enough dmg, even at the early versions. The difference is, that Magic is now a more specific tool, that also factors into your normal combos. You cant spam Magic, like in KH1, since you cant really play a mostly caster-like Sora. But in terms of how magic enhances the combat and your options, they are vital and fairly well balanced options, even reflect being op is just a minor thing, with how little magic it costs

I just finished my 100% critical mode run, and prior to -aga spells (not counting reflect, cure, and magnet) I didn't touch magic aside from Port Royal pirates because every time I tried the damage was pitiful. I'm not even talking about spamming it as a "caster" but weaving it in like I did in KH1. Magic is severely nerfed in KH2, at least until -aga spells (and again ignoring Reflect and Magnet)

I did the same and it is quite usefull. Especially Fire can be really nice in certain fights in Mulan-World or the Window-Fights. Its also great early on in combination with Chicken Little, he pulls stuff in and you can dmg all of them in one go, even finishing with a wider normal combo finisher. Just because you couldnt find any use for them doesnt make them useless. I agree that Blizzard is harder to find use for, but even then, since it can hit multiple targets, the dmg it can rack up can be quite high. Even if the individual dmg seems low. Also Fire is great against the Shadows, as it stunlocks them, so they stay up, and you can easily hit multiple like that. Thunder can help in finishing off bosses, since magic counts as a "finish" and even the later versions can be usefull together with magnet, although magnet into finishing leap is often a bit more effective. But yeah, most magic is more about hitting multiple, than it is about massivly dmging one enemie. Its not nerfed, it just is build into the game differently. I mean, also if it wasnt usefull and the fastest way, why would speedrunners of this game use most magic , even fire, blizzard and thunder, outside of pirats world, if there wasnt actual use (KH2FM is not glitch-based, its purely a skillbased speedrun). So yeah. Thats why i disagree with you :)

[PKblaze]

It definitely got screwed from KH1 where having 10 MP meant you could wipe a room and cure spam for days. That being said, magic, especially in drive forms, is good overall with Reflect being completely busted.

[Scipo0419]

Originally posted by SolidSora:

Originally posted by Scipo0419:

I just finished my 100% critical mode run, and prior to -aga spells (not counting reflect, cure, and magnet) I didn't touch magic aside from Port Royal pirates because every time I tried the damage was pitiful. I'm not even talking about spamming it as a "caster" but weaving it in like I did in KH1. Magic is severely nerfed in KH2, at least until -aga spells (and again ignoring Reflect and Magnet)

I did the same and it is quite usefull. Especially Fire can be really nice in certain fights in Mulan-World or the Window-Fights. Its also great early on in combination with Chicken Little, he pulls stuff in and you can dmg all of them in one go, even finishing with a wider normal combo finisher. Just because you couldnt find any use for them doesnt make them useless. I agree that Blizzard is harder to find use for, but even then, since it can hit multiple targets, the dmg it can rack up can be quite high. Even if the individual dmg seems low. Also Fire is great against the Shadows, as it stunlocks them, so they stay up, and you can easily hit multiple like that. Thunder can help in finishing off bosses, since magic counts as a "finish" and even the later versions can be usefull together with magnet, although magnet into finishing leap is often a bit more effective. But yeah, most magic is more about hitting multiple, than it is about massivly dmging one enemie. Its not nerfed, it just is build into the game differently. I mean, also if it wasnt usefull and the fastest way, why would speedrunners of this game use most magic , even fire, blizzard and thunder, outside of pirats world, if there wasnt actual use (KH2FM is not glitch-based, its purely a skillbased speedrun). So yeah. Thats why i disagree with you :)

I never said it was useless, I said it was nerfed and "not useful for damage." as a finishing blow, for stuns, or to get past Fat Bandit/Large Body/Hot Rod deflections are uses for magic. But when it comes to damage output, it's not even close to KH1 magic. Fire was a genuinely useful damage tool, even before Fira/Firaga, Blizzard was not as useful as Fire or Thunder in most cases, but once it got to Blizzara/Blizzaga the shotgun spread was quite useful for one-shotting some Colosseum matches. Thunder was a useful AoE spell even before Thundara/Thundaga and by the time you got Thundaga you could pretty much ignore your physical combos in most fights and just rely on a Thundaga or two (depending on your max MP). KH2 magic cannot do that outside of the -aga variants. And even then Firaga is useless for damage if you're not in Final Form or Wisdom Form and Blizzaga is extremely niche with the only uses I can think of being against the aforementioned Deflection enemies and Axel, Thundaga is actually really good though, even in Base Form with Wisdom/Master/Final making it godly for damage especially when paired with Magnet.

[Tag365]

Yeah, I noticed Fira being extra powerful in Kingdom Hearts Final Mix with the Dream Rod, the Spellbinder Keyblade, and 2 MP boosting equipment items on Sora. Fira destroyed those Heartless. I can't say the same on Kingdom Hearts II unless I grind a lot.