The skills system is questionable at best.

[Koytar]

There are some skills that do improve the quality of life of players (less mouvement speed debuff on barbed wire, faster sabotage, faster hacking, more time to check in, etc...) But some skills ? i.e. more health, armour, faster regen. Those, for the game, are killing even the "hard" maps. You get maxed health, fastest regen, maxed out armour (with the best armour as well) and you are basically god.

If we don't touch the health system, removing more health, and faster health regen would be a good start, maybe remove armour bonus as well, since the heavy armour is really good on its own. Other than that it should be fine for the most part.

As for stealth, I haven't upgraded them yet because it seems too op, especially for guards where their sights are straight up and not really in the angles. Cameras are alright as it is. Idk how bad it can be with the skill in question.

Oh and there's no way to reset skills as well. Either in game or in saves file (maybe the level safe file since skills require a threshold to be unlocked and learned/upgraded) so yea if you don't want to loose progress but you want to get rid of the skills ? cheat until you reach the level you grinded legit. And if you are not keen to use cheat even in a morally correct stand, yeaaa good luck enjoying the game.

I did tried quickly the game before there was appearances and skills but not enough to compare for both early game and end game. Something to discuss as well.

[Michaloid]

I think this would be easily solved with the payday 2 skill system. Have a max number of points to the skill tree and boom, not invincible anymore.

[Koytar]

Originally posted by Michaloid:

I think this would be easily solved with the payday 2 skill system. Have a max number of points to the skill tree and boom, not invincible anymore.

yea that would also force you to specialize onto one particular playstyle instead of being a JOAT on steroids. Haven't thought about that.

[Wingspan]

I have overwhelmingly played maps stealthily with my 130+ hours of play time, so that's my starting point.

I don't know if you've played with pubs, but I welcome the increased health/armor pools and regen. I join public games with the intent of either helping people out or for the entertainment of things going sideways, and 95% of the time things go sideways in the first 15 seconds. Often I'd be the only one doing objectives and teammates are running around the map, getting downed in far off locations and screaming to be revived. The increase pools have saved me and the heist more often than not.

If anything, I've reported Deadly Aim as being effectively useless, as the only gun that reaches a new damage break point is the suppressed LC4 (M4), which will 3 tap heads on swat instead of 4. Without a damage reduction muzzle, with or without the skill, it will 3 tap heads. I think the other weapons (revolver, AUG) that report high damage numbers are not accurate, as they should be able to 2 tap heads with the skill and do not.

[Koytar]

Originally posted by Wingspan:

I have overwhelmingly played maps stealthily with my 130+ hours of play time, so that's my starting point.

I don't know if you've played with pubs, but I welcome the increased health/armor pools and regen. I join public games with the intent of either helping people out or for the entertainment of things going sideways, and 95% of the time things go sideways in the first 15 seconds. Often I'd be the only one doing objectives and teammates are running around the map, getting downed in far off locations and screaming to be revived. The increase pools have saved me and the heist more often than not.

If anything, I've reported Deadly Aim as being effectively useless, as the only gun that reaches a new damage break point is the suppressed LC4 (M4), which will 3 tap heads on swat instead of 4. Without a damage reduction muzzle, with or without the skill, it will 3 tap heads. I think the other weapons (revolver, AUG) that report high damage numbers are not accurate, as they should be able to 2 tap heads with the skill and do not.

To be honest, it's rare for me to get a playable pub lobby as half the time I either lost connection while joining, half the time host leave, half the time I get kicked, etc... You get the idea.

The rare times I got proper lobbies with people that are playing were decent enough in a way that they don't die at the other side of earth, or die at all.

My perspective comes from a lot of duo gameplay on both loud and stealth and I never die unless I am afk. So there's that to take into account.

I never tried deadly aim because the guns are nearly if not perfectly accurate in hip fire (weapon mods + skill). And you barely ever run out of ammo so extra damage is eh.

[Wingspan]

Originally posted by > Koytar:

Originally posted by Wingspan:

I have overwhelmingly played maps stealthily with my 130+ hours of play time, so that's my starting point.

I don't know if you've played with pubs, but I welcome the increased health/armor pools and regen. I join public games with the intent of either helping people out or for the entertainment of things going sideways, and 95% of the time things go sideways in the first 15 seconds. Often I'd be the only one doing objectives and teammates are running around the map, getting downed in far off locations and screaming to be revived. The increase pools have saved me and the heist more often than not.

If anything, I've reported Deadly Aim as being effectively useless, as the only gun that reaches a new damage break point is the suppressed LC4 (M4), which will 3 tap heads on swat instead of 4. Without a damage reduction muzzle, with or without the skill, it will 3 tap heads. I think the other weapons (revolver, AUG) that report high damage numbers are not accurate, as they should be able to 2 tap heads with the skill and do not.

To be honest, it's rare for me to get a playable pub lobby as half the time I either lost connection while joining, half the time host leave, half the time I get kicked, etc... You get the idea.

The rare times I got proper lobbies with people that are playing were decent enough in a way that they don't die at the other side of earth, or die at all.

My perspective comes from a lot of duo gameplay on both loud and stealth and I never die unless I am afk. So there's that to take into account.

I never tried deadly aim because the guns are nearly if not perfectly accurate in hip fire (weapon mods + skill). And you barely ever run out of ammo so extra damage is eh.

Most lobbies are crap, if you can even get in one, but i throw myself out there from time to time, so I know exactly where you're coming from. All my premade duos+ groups always focused on stealth, usually for speedrun time. so I am only doing loud heists in pub games.

I find it easier to land headshots with ADS, and I was hoping that one of the higher damage number guns would be able to hit a damage breakpoint of 2 vs 3 shotting enemies. Its not about the ammo efficiency unless I have some ferret on bath salts spraying around the map and gobbling up all the ammo. For me its time to kill and clearing a room since I'm usually the only one playing the objective/alive/has ammo. Spending 50% less time per enemy kill is what I was hoping for, and only the DMR can do that (without the last 5 round x2 damage multiplier)

[UnknownPhoenix77]

I Think its cool because its easy and they can just put even harder maps in
(maybe)

[YANIS]

Bro if i buy an map i get all of em or i need to buy each one?

[Koytar]

each one

[ChronoWight]

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

[ChronoWight]

wingspan

[Wingspan]

Originally posted by ChronoWight:

wingspan

Why hello there

[tf2 pomson enjoyer #FIXVACPLS]

Difficulties???

[Mr Tophat]

Originally posted by _⁧⁧Koytar:

There are some skills that do improve the quality of life of players (less mouvement speed debuff on barbed wire, faster sabotage, faster hacking, more time to check in, etc...) But some skills ? i.e. more health, armour, faster regen. Those, for the game, are killing even the "hard" maps. You get maxed health, fastest regen, maxed out armour (with the best armour as well) and you are basically god.

If we don't touch the health system, removing more health, and faster health regen would be a good start, maybe remove armour bonus as well, since the heavy armour is really good on its own. Other than that it should be fine for the most part.

As for stealth, I haven't upgraded them yet because it seems too op, especially for guards where their sights are straight up and not really in the angles. Cameras are alright as it is. Idk how bad it can be with the skill in question.

Oh and there's no way to reset skills as well. Either in game or in saves file (maybe the level safe file since skills require a threshold to be unlocked and learned/upgraded) so yea if you don't want to loose progress but you want to get rid of the skills ? cheat until you reach the level you grinded legit. And if you are not keen to use cheat even in a morally correct stand, yeaaa good luck enjoying the game.

I did tried quickly the game before there was appearances and skills but not enough to compare for both early game and end game. Something to discuss as well.

The revive speed ability as far as I'm aware is broken because I maxed it out and it straight up broke my ability to revive people

[Wingspan]

Originally posted by Mr Tophat:

The revive speed ability as far as I'm aware is broken because I maxed it out and it straight up broke my ability to revive people

You can still revive people, but you need to hold the use button longer. The skill is broken in that the status bar completes faster but isn't actually any faster, so hold the use button a couple seconds longer and it should work.

[Incragew]

Originally posted by Wingspan:

Originally posted by Mr Tophat:

The revive speed ability as far as I'm aware is broken because I maxed it out and it straight up broke my ability to revive people

You can still revive people, but you need to hold the use button longer. The skill is broken in that the status bar completes faster but isn't actually any faster, so hold the use button a couple seconds longer and it should work.

So I better dont buy/research that skill?