💬 Feedback on the Demo

[Cosimania]

Hey there, do you have any feedback on the demo for the Dev Team? Use this topic to share your thoughts or join the Official Discord[discord.gg]. 💬

[Hunter Wolf]

My only issue is I feel that 3 cost rooms should maybe give more control I find it really hard to manage to not get cursed and then I get stuck with -x control

Also after playing awhile I feel dashing should give me more 'breif second of invinciblity' since I mostly die cuz I dash and there no invunerable moment and trying to get away kills me.

Also perhaps a leveling system? It's a pain to run around every room trying to find an item that gives more hearts

[Shakeron]

droped demo after dodge training. THis is just stupid if enemy can hit you in dodge. Tried different ways - if you dodge very last moment or dodge into enemy strike - you will take dmg. Im pass on that game with such unfair mechanic

[Kitoshi]

My main concern with the game so far is the dodging. No I-frames feels bad in the context of this game in particular.

You are expecting people to anticipate just about every attack before they happen including projectiles. In my very brief time with the game I died mostly due to projectiles because I just could not dodge them and they shoot from quite a distance away while I am fighting other stuff.

So.... my advise is to look at the iframes on dodging again in the context of the movesets on the enemies. A lot of enemies having a lot of range to catch you off guard and you can't dodge through them just turns this into a jump to dodge everything making the dodge feel bad.

Also the game tops out at 1080p? Add more resolutions.
Game feels fine from a gameplay point of view beyond that though! Smooth, solid controls, responsive, the building your own map layout system is not bad but I felt like I was always starved for control to add rooms so I pretty much immediatly got punished placing my first room by lowering my HP with a curse if I got hit too many times. I pretty much was always control starved which felt kinda bad.

[null]

The concept is very nice, but I hope you have some more replayability planned.

Combat feels on the generic side and while I think building dungeon layout is a fun puzzle, it doesn't offer a huge deal of replayability.

Dungeon building

I think dungeon building is the main selling point, so it should be more integral to gameplay, rather than being just a gimmicky way to going from 1 area to another. I think 2 main things to focus on are: making it more difficult to go from point A to point B (currency like control is a way, but not a great one) AND rewarding going to specific locations.
Few ideas

• Reduce the control costs of placing blocks, but offer a tradeoff for holding onto them. A block could be used as a consumable heal, or be converted to control, or some of the more valuable blocks could even be exchanged for permanent buffs.
  
• Classes that are good in specific methods of dungeon building.
  Example of class unique strengths
  
  • Base class (demo one), has access to many different types of tiles.
    
  • Grows stronger with each room opened, but has tiles that are difficult to work with.
    
  • Only builds straight corridors (no rectangular, or bent rooms).
    
  • Teleports to any block (can, but doesn't need to build blocks), but consumes blocks/control per room visited (or per teleport).
    
  • Has access to portals tile that links 2 any tiles.
    
  • Ability to move static titles (for example, move the boss tile right next to you).
    
• Start with less blocks, but give us the option to buy more.
  
• Objectives to visit a certain amount of specific rooms in a run for a reward.
  
• Secret locations. You have an obvious path layed out. There could be invisible rooms that offer some global unlocks, or maybe just rare items as rewards.
  
• Unlock class variants (possibly just skins for that class) when beating the game having visited all "static" rooms. Another one for beatign the game having visited low/no optional rooms.

These are just some loose ideas to work with.

Combat

On combat side, I feel like you have to choose between polished minimalism in and button masher with variety. Right now most regular enemies are button masher types with very little engagement (dash behind and attack) and the boss has strict patterns to be avoided.
Button masher aspects leaves me wanting more weapons/tools/effects. The boss left me wanting telegraphing (some attacks just kinda start after the boss sits there for a second or 2) and probably a bit more attention to how threats are displayed. For example, being hit while the boss is slowly rising up (as it goes up and down as it closes in on the center) doesn't feel like a deserved hit. Visually the boss doesn't carry momentum or other threatening visuals to be perceived as an attack. It looks like a windup, BEFORE a slam attack.

[SirCris]

As others have stated the dodge should have iframes. That was ultimately why I didn't play longer than a single run that I died in because I dodged into an attack.

[Kayde Bastion]

I hate how the doors work. It's so convoluted, I can't even understand what I'm supposed to do, and if you mess up, it'll take you back a room or two. Couldn't you just have it be where you search the area, fight through encounters, find a key and then make your way back?
I'll admit I've been playing a lot of classic Doom lately, but I really think that gameplay loop really work here and help the demo focus on what's more important: platforming and combat. Or hell, you could even have us solve a proper puzzle (implying if this is meant to be a puzzle) or go through waves of tough encounters with a mini boss or something. Just anything rather than whatever the hell you got going on here 'cause it's not good.

[laxor333]

At first i also thought the control pieces were a bit too rare, but in later attempts i found out i was managing them wrong.
Also upgrades are a bit too rare imo
Aside from these points (second is not really a problem) it was a really good demo.

[Jupiter]

Originally posted by Shakeron:

droped demo after dodge training. THis is just stupid if enemy can hit you in dodge. Tried different ways - if you dodge very last moment or dodge into enemy strike - you will take dmg. Im pass on that game with such unfair mechanic

Skill issue.

[ASTROCHRONIC]

the floating candles that shoot at you are a real pain... they way they aim at you all the way up till the point they shoot makes it very difficult to manage things... Their aim should be locked on longer before they shoot so I have a little breathing room to deal with baddies and not jump right into a shot from the candle...its a fun killer... I also think the "Control" is a bit stingy... I like to explore and not be so punished for it.
Also there should be hidden bonuses in different squares if you build on them and not just the designated bonuses from the rooms you choose. Sometimes a mini boss maybe... Maybe some Scrabble like multipliers for coins or control drops...or mobs.

[ASTROCHRONIC]

Originally posted by Shakeron:

droped demo after dodge training. THis is just stupid if enemy can hit you in dodge. Tried different ways - if you dodge very last moment or dodge into enemy strike - you will take dmg. Im pass on that game with such unfair mechanic

Dodge does not need I-frames. This is not Dark Souls combat. Its 2D roguevania. The dash is nice and long and has no cool down. I have no complaints. But it opens an opportunity for potential upgrades that grant varying amounts of I-frames for the dodge. Or maybe a trade off if they add an additional character to play as, a change in play style could be a shorter dodge with i-frames but a longer cool down. The melee could be something similar but have grapple capability maybe to grab enemies and throw them into other enemies or hazards, like a whip that also shoots a light ranged projectile if it does not strike an enemy, and the ranged spell could change to an AOE attack...

[ASTROCHRONIC]

Originally posted by Kayde Bastion:

I hate how the doors work. It's so convoluted, I can't even understand what I'm supposed to do, and if you mess up, it'll take you back a room or two. Couldn't you just have it be where you search the area, fight through encounters, find a key and then make your way back?
I'll admit I've been playing a lot of classic Doom lately, but I really think that gameplay loop really work here and help the demo focus on what's more important: platforming and combat. Or hell, you could even have us solve a proper puzzle (implying if this is meant to be a puzzle) or go through waves of tough encounters with a mini boss or something. Just anything rather than whatever the hell you got going on here 'cause it's not good.

The innovative and core aspect of this game is the ability to construct your own map. Like in many Rogue likes, such as Curse of the Dead Gods, you have choices for which path you can take, but this game puts a twist on that and allows you to build the map and the encounters, with a balancing factor to punish you for too much side tracking for bonuses and such.

I personally feel there is a major flaw in the system here as it is very punishing to the player if they explore and seems to reward the player more for just finding the shortest quickest path to the boss...I understand that if you run around and collect upgrades, then there should be a penalty cost to do so, but there should be a mechanic that allows for skill to compensate some of that penalty because exploring is fun and should not be punishing. My idea for rebalancing this mechanic would be to grant more control (perhaps as a bonus for completing rooms without taking damage and/or doing so very quickly) but some chests or healing items or other interactibles will cost control to utilize...?

[ASTROCHRONIC]

Originally posted by Kitoshi:

My main concern with the game so far is the dodging. No I-frames feels bad in the context of this game in particular.

You are expecting people to anticipate just about every attack before they happen including projectiles. In my very brief time with the game I died mostly due to projectiles because I just could not dodge them and they shoot from quite a distance away while I am fighting other stuff.

So.... my advise is to look at the iframes on dodging again in the context of the movesets on the enemies. A lot of enemies having a lot of range to catch you off guard and you can't dodge through them just turns this into a jump to dodge everything making the dodge feel bad.

Also the game tops out at 1080p? Add more resolutions.
Game feels fine from a gameplay point of view beyond that though! Smooth, solid controls, responsive, the building your own map layout system is not bad but I felt like I was always starved for control to add rooms so I pretty much immediatly got punished placing my first room by lowering my HP with a curse if I got hit too many times. I pretty much was always control starved which felt kinda bad.

The projectiles are a problem. They lock on aim right till they fire and I constantly either jump or dash into a shot. I think the solution is to make the aim lock on and hold that aim longer before firing. Maybe just an extra second would be enough to better manage jumping and dodging... Or maybe they could add I-frames to the dash against projectiles... I personally do not feel like the melee encounters need I-frames. The dash is nice and long, you can dash through the enemy and there is virtually no cool down.