Checkpoint system is unflexible and prevents fun

[Buntkreuz]

I often find fun shortcuts and new routes but then reach the end and am sent back because i "missed" a checkpoint.
I managed to go through the entire track without even falling once and i did it with 1:00 improvement, but the game goes restrictive because of some arbitrary checkpoints.

Had that in the demo a few times.
Half the fun of this game is finding or riding shortcuts and sometimes even cheesing the track a tiny bit.

I had one where i rode down the final third of the mountain but managed to get on the other slope on the left, ignoring the right one.
I got there legitimately, not cheesing a jump or anything, but wasnt allowed to finish the run, because it had no checkpoints.

Thats really boring and i should be allowed to skip checkpoints.
Its even a balanced design choice, because skipping checkpoints would mean i had to be reset far more behind and go down again with less restarting locations.

I hope that racing and coop allow for enough options to go without a fixed checkpoint system, maybe something more alike freerun.

In general though, i should be allowed to skip checkpoints on the disadvantage of having further away respawn points.

[Munki]

their downhill mountain bike game had a 'free run' type mode with no checkpoints aside from the finish, a lot of us are hoping they bring that mode into the full version of this. And with that mode cheesing jumps and massive drops were definitely the way to get the best times.

[Buntkreuz]

Publicado originalmente por Munki:

their downhill mountain bike game had a 'free run' type mode with no checkpoints aside from the finish, a lot of us are hoping they bring that mode into the full version of this. And with that mode cheesing jumps and massive drops were definitely the way to get the best times.

I know but i hope that this free run will not just be a free run for singleplayer without any rules, but also a way to do Racing (versus) and coop downhill.

Besides that, i think the checkpoint system the way it is is too restrictive and it also is in the Biking game.
I get tasked with "finish in under 1:50" and im spending like 40 retries to get through a tough shortcut to achieve that, only to be told i missed a checkpoint.
Im not allowed to freely achieve the best times, i have to follow a specific route that excludes a lot of the alternative routes and shortcuts.

I think the Free Run Mode is fun and should be in the new game available for all modes (singleplayer, versus and coop), but its not really a fix to the lacking design behind it.

There should be more checkpoints spread across the track so it doesnt matter which route i take.

[Munki]

or you can, yknow, git gud *shrug*

[Buntkreuz]

Havent seen someone this unable to understand something in quite a while and i have kids of 2 and 4 year age, so its quite an achievement for you.

Point in your favor though, i assume you are using google translate falsely and thought a toxic response is a good way to interact.

[Munki]

No no I understand perfectly - you're unable to play the game the way the developers have made it and want them to change it to suit you. It is meant to be challenging and difficult, but you want it easy. I'm sorry bud but it doesn't work like that. Maybe they'll make it a little easier, but if you miss a checkpoint you miss a checkpoint and it's incomplete, and the routes are set. It isn't toxic to say you need to get better at it. There are parts of some set routes where you need to go slower to take little shortcuts, and there are some where you need to go stupid fast to make big jumps. I agree it can be frustrating but that is the nature of the game. Also 'git gud' is basically a meme from the early days of dark souls where people complained they couldn't do the hard things and the only advice was to practice and get better, often said as 'git gud scrub'. And that is pretty much what you need to do - get good by learning where you're supposed to go, learning where the hazards are, learning what shortcuts you can and can't take, learning the best lines through each section, and (frustratingly) do it over and over until you can get the times you need.
That said, I think free run racing (both vs and coop) is actually a great idea.
If I needed to use any language other than english I would use google translate for that.

In an effort to be actually helpful, which sections of which track is giving you trouble? maybe I can help you find the way?

[Buntkreuz]

Publicado originalmente por Munki:

No no I understand perfectly - you're unable to play the game the way the developers have made it and want them to change it to suit you. It is meant to be challenging and difficult, but you want it easy. I'm sorry bud but it doesn't work like that. Maybe they'll make it a little easier, but if you miss a checkpoint you miss a checkpoint and it's incomplete, and the routes are set. It isn't toxic to say you need to get better at it. There are parts of some set routes where you need to go slower to take little shortcuts, and there are some where you need to go stupid fast to make big jumps. I agree it can be frustrating but that is the nature of the game. Also 'git gud' is basically a meme from the early days of dark souls where people complained they couldn't do the hard things and the only advice was to practice and get better, often said as 'git gud scrub'. And that is pretty much what you need to do - get good by learning where you're supposed to go, learning where the hazards are, learning what shortcuts you can and can't take, learning the best lines through each section, and (frustratingly) do it over and over until you can get the times you need.
That said, I think free run racing (both vs and coop) is actually a great idea.
If I needed to use any language other than english I would use google translate for that.

In an effort to be actually helpful, which sections of which track is giving you trouble? maybe I can help you find the way?

No im pretty sure you dont understand anything.

This isnt about being hard or intended to play, this is about the game preventing me from actually being good, because it locks me behind arbitrary checkpoint locations that contradict its core design:
finding your way down the hill.

Theres plenty of alternative routes but you are prohibited from using them because you would miss a checkpoint.

Thats boring and prevents experimentation. I could beat a route in a 1:30 by picking clever shortcuts, but im not allowed to because the game wants me to go a specific route with specific checkpoints.

So next time you want to be toxic, do somewhere else.
"Git gud" was never the smart response to anything, because it just highlights a lack of understanding the actual topic as a logical fallacy

Now backtracking with "i just want to help" is kind of a let down.

[Munki]

It is you who does not understand. There is no backtracking or "I just want to help", I still think you need to practice and find the way and get better at it and despite being an a-hole to you I was willing to try to help you achieve that. But suit yourself, champ.

[Buntkreuz]

Yeah i dont understand my own topic. Gaslight galore.

This is a feedback thread to express where the game is lacking at, more as a topic to the devs, not some toxic user.

Move on please, you have no business here and you were not trying to help, you were just trying to insult.

[Munki]

More like you don't understand how the game works, or public forums. Maybe the mods can do you a favour and lock the thread so no one else can reply? Because I'm enjoying wasting your time when you could be learning to play the game and forget about me.

[Buntkreuz]

Publicado originalmente por Munki:

More like you don't understand how the game works, or public forums. Maybe the mods can do you a favour and lock the thread so no one else can reply? Because I'm enjoying wasting your time when you could be learning to play the game and forget about me.

Troll at the max, be reported, blocked anyway

[Rat]

L imagine not being able to follow a route.

[Buntkreuz]

Imagine the games tracks being designed to not have one route but needs you to take shortcuts for best times.
Thats literally the goal.
But i guess the name fits the attitude.

[AntF1551]

Publicado originalmente por Munki:

No no I understand perfectly - you're unable to play the game the way the developers have made it and want them to change it to suit you. It is meant to be challenging and difficult, but you want it easy. I'm sorry bud but it doesn't work like that. Maybe they'll make it a little easier, but if you miss a checkpoint you miss a checkpoint and it's incomplete, and the routes are set. It isn't toxic to say you need to get better at it. There are parts of some set routes where you need to go slower to take little shortcuts, and there are some where you need to go stupid fast to make big jumps. I agree it can be frustrating but that is the nature of the game. Also 'git gud' is basically a meme from the early days of dark souls where people complained they couldn't do the hard things and the only advice was to practice and get better, often said as 'git gud scrub'. And that is pretty much what you need to do - get good by learning where you're supposed to go, learning where the hazards are, learning what shortcuts you can and can't take, learning the best lines through each section, and (frustratingly) do it over and over until you can get the times you need.
That said, I think free run racing (both vs and coop) is actually a great idea.
If I needed to use any language other than english I would use google translate for that.

In an effort to be actually helpful, which sections of which track is giving you trouble? maybe I can help you find the way?

Nah what he means is that the checkpoints can also be used to get those crazy good times, by just crashing slightly past the checkpoint and then restarting from the new checkpoint you got, but you REALLY didnt get it lol..

It also limits the amount of ways you can do the course even if it is the fastest way, that might get alittle boring after awhile if you've already figured it out or just dont want to keep trying to go down the same annoying shortcuts to replay the game more than a few weeks worth, and make it something you can play for a long time!

Even more so with this game, the Snow Riders game its like Skiing down a mountain, there is no checkpoints or right way down the mountain, unless its a roped off race course which these games are not..

They are "open world" biking & skiing games that use obstacles to try and create a set "pathway," but that makes it so you can only do it one way and further exploring past the original shortcuts and some "cheats" these people who fast play the whole game or try for the best time all are doing...

You can watch videos where its literally the people from the company and team, megailgoon, that made this game and the original LMD game and even they were kind of "sad" to see that's how people were playing the LMD game now to speed run the games and levels for the lowest times possible. But you need to crash through checkpoints do that..

Also FREERIDER mode is only for each mountain in LMD under Singleplayer mode obviously because there is no multiplayer on that game unfortunately like this new game has.. But thats just for progressing through the game, and you can go any way you want this way, PLUS you cant crash into checkpoints and have them count to skip an ENTIRE section with only having to give up a crash or two doing it with checkpoints ON.

It is in the Daily Rides sometimes, but that's about as far as it goes. Maybe making that its own MP racing mode would be interesting or separating best times by Checkpoint vs Freerider modes..

[nocash]

Just a fundamental failure to understand racing and time trails. The game isn't telling you to "get to the finish" in under 2:00, it's telling you to complete the course in under 2:00, and the course is the checkpoints. If you go straight to the finish without passing the checkpoints, then you didn't finish the course.

Think of each checkpoint as a mini finish line. You're free to complete each mini race using whatever route you want, provided you finish them in order. Once you cross enough finish lines, you win the full race.

[Buntkreuz]

Publicado originalmente por nocash:

Just a fundamental failure to understand racing and time trails. The game isn't telling you to "get to the finish" in under 2:00, it's telling you to complete the course in under 2:00, and the course is the checkpoints. If you go straight to the finish without passing the checkpoints, then you didn't finish the course.

Think of each checkpoint as a mini finish line. You're free to complete each mini race using whatever route you want, provided you finish them in order. Once you cross enough finish lines, you win the full race.

That would be fine and we could interpret it that way, if there was more content that offered more flexibility.

See, the maps are designed so you explore and find paths, some of which even bypass an entire section of the main track route.
But to be able to make use of that, you needed a more flexible checkpoint system, at least in certain modes.
Theres only ONE freerun challenge per track and thats also the other extreme.

So what im saying is, there is one extreme where i have ZERO freedom to pick my route to the finish line and the other extreme is absolutely NO rules or expectations.
What is missing is a solid middleground that offers freedom of choice regarding the path i take and enough expectation to provide some challenge.

I think more checkpoints that are spread around the map on each possible path or fewer checkpoints but at specific junction points would fix that.
Imagine a track thats separated in like 3 or 4 sections, so still checkpoints i need to pass, but at locations i need to pass through anyway.

All in all how checkpoints work here and are used for, is unsatisfying and in my eyes even contradictory game design.
The game has such nice strengths and features that are undermined by it.

I hope the new game will fix that more, especially for coop and racing.
Which is why im asking that these modes i will play most (coop and racing) will feature far more freedom, a "Less checkpoints" mode (or maybe even a setting to set how many active checkpoints we want per track) and the freerun mode for both, coop and versus.

Thats basically it.