Ikaruga

Ikaruga

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Mr. Stimpson 2014 年 6 月 23 日 上午 11:37
Why is this regarded so highly?
I get that it's a good game, but I don't understand why people keep saying that this is the best shooter on Steam (it feels more like a puzzle game than shooter. i'd even say eXceed 2nd does the mechanic better as it pertains to the shooter genres). With options like eXceed 3rd, Danmaku Unlimited 2, and Crimson Clover, (not to mention some of the shumup titles like Astebreed, but that's a different comparison) this game is just "meh" in comparison.

Obviously this is my opinion, but I'd like to know yours. Why do you feel Ikaruga is the best shooter here on Steam over all the other great entries into the genre?
最後修改者:Mr. Stimpson; 2014 年 6 月 23 日 上午 11:39
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Lu2 2015 年 1 月 23 日 上午 12:48 
引用自 Rooklove
I am really confused how this game gets so high ratings on Steam...I mean ok,having played this game years ago doesn't justify the fact that this game isn't that good at all...The game is original though..i havent seen that before,where you have to switch polarities to get unharmed by a certain type of ammo being shot at you...But damn some levels are just impossible to pass without using a ****load of continuations....Ofcourse it is my fault for not having been looking up onto this game more...But if i knew what I know now about this game,for having played it...i would have saved my money and bought another game.This game isn't worth more then €3 imo. Not the €9 it is being sold for now....Sigh...meanwhile..I still have to wait till Nemesis (the pre desesor of Gradius) arrives on pc...Now THAT was a shooter like this game should have been ^^ A game (Nemesis) that is been spoken of untill now.. by me at least rofl...Nemesis I played on the MSX and damn now that was a shooter I bet a lot would like to own... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIIPCUTxFjk So meanwhile...I am waiting for a HD version of that game...while this game Ikaruga is just a dissapointment...Only really enjoyable for people with memories of it of years ago imo...
dude try crimson clover (its beatable with one coin even for noob on easy) its fun good game
[MiTC]Saetta 2015 年 1 月 23 日 上午 5:31 
Back in the Gamecube era, i spent hours and hours trying to learn every level. It's a memory, a concentration and a hand-eye coordination challenge. It seems like a dance, sometimes. Never found anything like it anymore. Ikaruga <3
Slam 2015 年 2 月 1 日 上午 9:06 
I don't know what it is about Ikaruga, but it keeps me coming back. I play very casually, but I always find myself returning to have a try at getting further than I had previously. It rewards repetition and practice, which to some may be a downside. But it has certainly grown on me.
Siscon Rights Activist 2015 年 6 月 16 日 上午 8:45 
Your opinion is wrong.
Jazman2k 2015 年 6 月 20 日 上午 12:13 
I still think Gradius V is the best Shmup ever created.
Lu2 2015 年 6 月 20 日 上午 6:15 
i prefer darius gaiden/g-darius or old thunder force
Neptas 2015 年 6 月 22 日 下午 11:02 
Come on, we all know the best Shmup is DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou :P
NickelSandwich 2015 年 6 月 23 日 上午 7:41 
I wish someone would give this thread a blissful death.
最後修改者:NickelSandwich; 2015 年 6 月 23 日 上午 7:42
sere 2015 年 6 月 27 日 上午 12:44 
well, saying it feels more like a puzzle game than a shooter says alot about that person's inexperience with shmups. most bullet hells, when not relying on grazing, score and award multipliers based on combo mechanics or hoarding small objects on the screen and collecting them at the best moment. majority of shmups, especially from ikaruga's era, are going to have core gameplay elements that behave like puzzles. 1cc a bullet hell is a good goal but not the point; it's score.. and you get score by engaging the secondary actions on the screen (which we can crudely label as puzzles).

why this is important part of making ikaruga so highly regarded is that the "puzzle" is consistent and identical each play through. this means it can be "mastered" more effectively through repetition and memorization. the game does not rely on typical tracking and bullet hoarding... which was rare outside of games like gradius or garage shmups.
最後修改者:sere; 2015 年 6 月 27 日 上午 12:50
NickelSandwich 2015 年 6 月 27 日 上午 1:17 
1cc IS the point. You yourself don't even believe that scoring is more important, which is why you call scoring actions "secondary".

>why this is important part of making ikaruga so highly regarded is that the "puzzle" is consistent and identical each play through. this means it can be "mastered" more effectively through repetition and memorization.

This is completely wrong. Being easier to memorize is a weakness, not a strength. You're writing nonsense, dude.

Not to mention that damn near every shmup can be memorized, just like damn near every game contains some element of pattern recognition. I guess they're all puzzle games now!
最後修改者:NickelSandwich; 2015 年 6 月 27 日 上午 1:23
Fishman465 2015 年 6 月 27 日 上午 2:10 
I think this is noted because it's a superb mix of art and function that defys the typical Shmup archetypes (Gradious/R-type, Bullet hell, etc). To go about blaisely comparing it to by a normal shmup's (particularly bullet hell) standards is a disservice to it.
sere 2015 年 6 月 28 日 上午 12:31 
引用自 AlexWrench
1cc IS the point. You yourself don't even believe that scoring is more important, which is why you call scoring actions "secondary".

>why this is important part of making ikaruga so highly regarded is that the "puzzle" is consistent and identical each play through. this means it can be "mastered" more effectively through repetition and memorization.

This is completely wrong. Being easier to memorize is a weakness, not a strength. You're writing nonsense, dude.

Not to mention that damn near every shmup can be memorized, just like damn near every game contains some element of pattern recognition. I guess they're all puzzle games now!

I am not writing nonsense, you are simply failing to grasp what was written. For instance, you took "secondary" to mean something it didn't because you ignored its relationship with the other words in the same sentence that work together to create the idea. "Secondary" does not simply mean "less important" or "optional".

Hoarding type popcorn enemies act according to your screen position, meaning you cannot memorize screen setups as if they were static like Ikaruga, you learn their patterns and manipulate the outcome by leading them. It's both memorization yet require 2 different types of approach. I am focusing on the approach taken in Ikaragu, which does not work when enemies track or cause hoarding. The difference is night and day between memorizing static behavior to progress and memorizing dynamic or reactive behavior to progress. Also, I was not saying shmups were puzzle games but merely pointing out the elements styled as "puzzle" in the way OP mentioned. Not my fault if you want to take a logical extreme and attribute it to a line of thought I was not taking.. I would not call or even guess "they're all puzzle games now!".

Believe what you want about schmups or respond in ignorance. It's of no consequence to me, who has been playing and importing them for over 10 years, performing for both credit finish trials and high scores.
最後修改者:sere; 2015 年 6 月 28 日 上午 12:44
NickelSandwich 2015 年 6 月 28 日 上午 1:17 
I'm not doubting your experience, man. But your conclusions just seem bogus to me. Learning to control dynamic patterns sounds more complex to me than memorizing a static pattern, and in my experience it's more rewarding regardless. I always felt that the static patterns were what made Ikaruga BORING, and that it manages to be an excellent game IN SPITE of how predictable it is. You can read further thoughts of mine on the game earlier in the thread.

And I realize that, AFTER you're done with a 1CC and are trying to squeeze every last ounce of enjoyment out of the game, scoring then becomes your long-term priority. But that doesn't change the fact that your primary goal is the 1CC, and in the very best of games scoring is in service to that. I think it's easy to lose sight of this fact if you've spent more time in the post-1CC portion of play.
AlucarD 2015 年 7 月 13 日 上午 3:31 
this game earned its rank because it was executed masterfully and even shares philosophy aspects and most of all its fun to play. Yes its very hard but it also teaches you lessons. I dunno if its the best shmup ever created but its definitely up there among the best shmups ever created, you can say its the Ninja Gaiden of the shmups :D
Meat Miracle 2015 年 7 月 19 日 下午 6:28 
Ikaruga is art. I've never seen a single other game that had so incredibly tight level design. Every single enemy is placed methodically in your way to make it possible to chain the level from beginning to end. It also has an incredible minimalism in the game system - one weapon, one special attack, unlike in other shmups were you have multiple weapons to use, multiple upgrades to pick, bombs, options (or multiples), what have you. It's short, simple, but incredibly well designed.

This is without even mentioning the ingenious polarity system. It's such a simple system, and you'd think it makes the game lenient, but it's the exact other way around. It makes the game incredibly complex. You have to simultaneously concentrate not just on dodging, but also on what you are shooting at (in contrast with other shmups, where it is enough to pay attention to your ship to dodge the bullet-hell). Because here, if you shoot the wrong thing at the wrong time, you'll end up trapping yourself. Like on level two where you have to rotate your shields constantly, and have the huge white ship lasering you: okay, you switch to light colour, charge up, use your charged up special on it, then switch to dark colour to dodge the now-rotated bullets on the side... but since you lasered a white enemy with a white laser, it releases more white bullets after its death, and since you switched polarities, you end up killing yourself.

The game has this beautiful simplicity and minimalism, and pairs it up with the most incredibly complex but well thought out level design. There is simply no other shooting game like it.
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