Why is this regarded so highly?

[Mr. Stimpson]

I get that it's a good game, but I don't understand why people keep saying that this is the best shooter on Steam (it feels more like a puzzle game than shooter. i'd even say eXceed 2nd does the mechanic better as it pertains to the shooter genres). With options like eXceed 3rd, Danmaku Unlimited 2, and Crimson Clover, (not to mention some of the shumup titles like Astebreed, but that's a different comparison) this game is just "meh" in comparison.

Obviously this is my opinion, but I'd like to know yours. Why do you feel Ikaruga is the best shooter here on Steam over all the other great entries into the genre?

[sere]

Ikaruga is considered the best of all time because of its remarkable craftsmanship. It surpasses almost all other shmups in system complexity while also baring the least amount of flaws. Many people, including me, actually see no flaw and consider it to be absolutely perfect in its design. Both its mechanics and visual style are unique in personality and still fresh a decade later.

You should consider playing shmups properly and engage in score attacks. After doing so, many of the games you mentioned will show their true colors. Some will reveal imperfections enough that you may completely change your mind about them and significantly lower your regard. A proper score attack should take anywhere between a week to three months. Participate in one, then come back and ask your question again.

Ikaruga is naturally the best shmup on steam. It shouldn't have been difficult to understand the reasons why it enjoys such high esteem.

Note

*Ikaruga is primarily scoring; dodging and survival are still important but play less of a role here compared to other shmups.

*Ikaruga IS bullet hell because of the type of patterned fire present in the game along with the behavior of the popcorns. Sure, the game has less sustained intensity than your average Cave game but the technical behavior is 100% bullet hell.

*Sine Mora is a visual feast first, lously shmup second. Its experiments failed and is the "cinematic" of shmups in the vein of Mass Effect or Metal Gear are in their respective genres (though Metal Gears don't suck!). Sine Mora makes too many mistakes that disrupt gameplay while also obscuring its purpose.

[cute girl farts]

Originally posted by Arthan:

I have no idea what you guys are talking about, and Ikaruga IS the best shmup on Steam. It might also be the best shmup ever released.

I'm all for diversity of opinions but... yeah.

It might be the best shmup ever released, but I'm teetering on awarding that to Einhander for the PSX.

[NickelSandwich]

Ikaruga is considered the best shmup ever because casual games journalists have an easier time wrapping their heads around colored shields and simon says than counterbombs, rank control, grazing, and whatever was up with the scoring system in Raiden Fighters Aces where those medals floated around your ship and you had to keep catching them and like, shaking them around. It's a transparently clever shmup, whereas most shmup design, while equally clever, is a good deal more subtle. It also helped that the Gamecube port had a short run, so until the digital releases it was spoken of in hushed tones as a rare legend among shmups, alongside Rez and, I dunno, Gitaroo Man or something.

Now, in spite of all that, Ikaruga is still a great game. It's a stylish shooter whose stripped-down mechanics and scoring system make an intermediate player think differently about how he approaches challenges. It's a rare shmup in which it's not always a good idea to mash the fire button, and for that reason alone I respect what it's done. But it in no way nullifies the success of the more traditional shmups that came before it or after it, as Tim Rogers implies in his review of the game. Dimahoo came first, and it had the same polarity-switching alongside less predictable patterns, tighter controls, more dynamic level design, and multiple wacky fun ships. But it's arcade-only and anime so nobody ever talks about it.

Ikaruga's not the greatest shooter because there isn't one, just like there's no greatest book. What matters is that any shmup fan worth his salt has some kind of opinion about it, and for the most part, those opinions are pretty good.

Now go look up Dimahoo, seriously, that game rules.

PS: Sine Mora's a sloppy gimmicky mess. It looks great and has a fun story but the game design's completely backwards even for a euroshmup. It's a slightly more annoying version of R-type Final, and that's not a compliment. I had fun with it, but I don't know why people on Steam think this game's a big deal.

[Fishman465]

That's a bit assumptive consdiering how Dimahoo wasn't as well covered (at the time Shmups in archives were winding down excluding Cave), that and despite its polarity thing, it was still a typical shmup of the Cave/Raizing mold (possibly partially done if the uncharacteristically bland ending is anything to go by) while Ikuruga was something that mixed art and function pretty well and didn't exactly play like a typical Shmup. Treasure didn't establish their cred by thinking in the box.

Let me compare the differences in short the polarity thing in Dimahoo was something extra while with Ikuruga, it was the centerpiece of the design. In the former, having matching polarity only resulted in powering down up on hits while in Ikuruga, it refilled your special attack meter and patterns were made to really take use of said ability.

Also Gituaro man wasn't much of a shmup but rather a music game. Pardon my outburst but I don't exactly care to see any sort of partially dismissal of this.

Though this topic was a result of someone applying their standards to what other people were saying.

Also Exceed Second is closer to Ikuruga in some ways (emphasis in chaining things, patterns made around the system) than Dimahoo while having a faster pace than Ikuruga

[NickelSandwich]

I was just goofing around. Gitaroo Man was another rare two-gens-ago japanese game is all I was saying. I was trusting the reader to figure out that I was joking about itbeing a shmup.

I completely agree that Ikaruga took the polarity system in a different direction. This is why I'm still stressing that both games are fantastic. They were even close enough in release that I might even assume their similarities were coincidental. And I'm not saying that Dimahoo having more ships, more traditional patterns, and tighter movement controls (the last of which is debatable) makes it a better game. However, one thing I legitimately enjoy more is the way the polarity is switched in Dimahoo. Making it a secondary effect of using your weapons just feels more solid to me than just having a flip button. But if Treasure did something like that, they'd REALLY have a Silhouette Mirage shmup, am I right?

(cough)

Final note Re: Exceed 2nd
I intentionally ignored this game because it's literally the same game as Ikaruga with faster patterns that are arguably easier to dodge, and a lot less of that fun, gimmicky level design from Treasure that we love so much. it's alright and it's still probably the most likeable Exceed, but the Exceed guys weren't being creative or going the extra mile here, they just lifted Treasure's system wholesale. The only reason anyone even knows who they are is because ZUN never put his games on Steam.

[Mr. Stimpson]

Originally posted by AlexWrench:

..snip..

Thank you for the insight into your thoughts on the subject.

Thanks, everyone. This thread has been one of my favorite subscriptions here on Steam to come back to and read everyone's thoughts.

[Fishman465]

I wouldn't say the exact same as there's some tactics like ramming (You don't die when running into enemies directly), and due to absorbsion hitbox quirks, it opends up some things. That and Exceed is a rather inesxpensive series.

If they came out today well, they'd end up overshadowed for sure considering what we do have coming out these days. But one might argue that they opened the doors for these current games on steam.

[chronicdog]

Ikaruga just doesnt have enough approachability for me. To consistenly reach the 4th boss, I have to play an hour or two everyday for a week, minimum. After putting it down for a while (played it a lot on DC and years later XBLA), trying to come back to it is just so damn hard. Also Im older and definitely not getting any faster or better memory. The game is beautiful and yes maybe even perfect but its just so demanding and so damn unforgiving. Ikaruga is like that gorgeous high maintenance girlfriend, she so amazing but to be with her 24 hours a day will make you 100% insane and if you dont see her for a while she acts rude and treats you like crap, yet you keep coming back...

[sere]

the most obvious answer to op is "because it was made by treasure". just gotta be receptive to treasure's special brand of magic. each of their genre entries beautifully strayed from convention to do it's own thing; often at times when formulas were exhausted or feeling stale.

[naufrage]

Originally posted by Astro Ramsay:

It may not seem much now, but when it was released it was pretty innovative. Fresh mechanics, stellar boss themes, and awesome visuals, it comes to no surprise that the japanese market loved it, considering it was ported to almost every console that was popular at the time.

Straight Dreamcast port from its twin Naomi hardware then the Gamecube(lol)? Lol!!!! no

[Fishman465]

I'd have to agree with the last bit as being stuck on the GC limited its exposure compared to if it was on the PS2.

[Randy_Hoo]

:yay:

[Randy_Hoo]

a

[AlucarD]

awesome soundtrack, responsive controls, unique gameplay, hardcoreness, even story is good for what it is, all those things make it above average !

[Flavito73]

I am really confused how this game gets so high ratings on Steam...I mean ok,having played this game years ago doesn't justify the fact that this game isn't that good at all...The game is original though..i havent seen that before,where you have to switch polarities to get unharmed by a certain type of ammo being shot at you...But damn some levels are just impossible to pass without using a ****load of continuations....Ofcourse it is my fault for not having been looking up onto this game more...But if i knew what I know now about this game,for having played it...i would have saved my money and bought another game.This game isn't worth more then €3 imo. Not the €9 it is being sold for now....Sigh...meanwhile..I still have to wait till Nemesis (the pre desesor of Gradius) arrives on pc...Now THAT was a shooter like this game should have been ^^ A game (Nemesis) that is been spoken of untill now.. by me at least rofl...Nemesis I played on the MSX and damn now that was a shooter I bet a lot would like to own... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIIPCUTxFjk So meanwhile...I am waiting for a HD version of that game...while this game Ikaruga is just a dissapointment...Only really enjoyable for people with memories of it of years ago imo...