Question for the Story (SPOILERS)

[Xato]

During the story, you play as Ellie for half of the story
Then you play another half as Abby, and start framing out the whole story

They want you to grieve with Abby, and make you think Joel and Ellie are the bad guys

But I see it the other way around, Abby is the bad guy of the story for me.
thoughts?

[episoder]

abby's story is mostly her own and pretty neutral. you don't connect the 2 arcs until you face tommy on the dock. which is late. ellie being the villain is also setup late when abby finds mel and owen dead at no point before that reveal, should ellie be considered the known villain in abby's subplot. btw... in general... there's no clean seperation between good and bad, no right or wrong. it's all pretty dark and revenge driven. so... w/e.

[azogthedefiler25]

I felt a little bad for Abby but I'm still team Ellie. Abby and her father are self righteous people. I always love hearing Mel tell Abby that she's a piece of ♥♥♥♥. And I don't like Mel either, lol. Abby's dad caused all of this by not giving Joel and Ellie closure BEFORE putting her under without ever speaking to her about her fate. If Joel was given time with Ellie and she told him she wanted to be sacrificed and he still slaughtered everyone, I'd feel better for Abby and her Father. The problem is, part 2 wasn't planned before part 1 was made, so the whole Abby and doctor father stuff didn't even exist. He was a regular npc that you've killed dozens of times in hospital scrubs in the original game.

[Freak4Leeks]

it's meant to be morally ambiguous no one is bad or good in the scenario

abby killed joel, so abby is bad, abby killed joel because joel killed her father, so joel is bad, joel killed her father to protect ellie, so abby's father is bad, abby's father wanted to kill ellie to make a cure..... so..... uh....

[Joe Cool]

Spoiler alert.

Abby's father is presented as a saint of a person, without any sort of flaws at all.

It was written this way in order to portray Joel as the only true "bad guy" of the franchise, because he murdered a defenseless saint of a doctor and doomed the entire human race in order to save Ellie. (Nevermind the fact that her idiot father caused his own death by lunging at Joel with a scalpel. Nevermind the fact that their chances of creating a cure were extremely low verging on nonexistent. Nevermind the fact that Ellie was unconscious and didn't even have the opportunity to choose.)

They wanted to show Abby as a good person. They even have her let Ellie live again after Ellie killed her two friends (including the man she supposedly loved) because she's supposed to be such a "good person" that she doesn't want to kill anymore.

She goes back to save the children, she doesn't want to fight the Seraphites anymore, it's all centered around her being a "good person" who wants to just live her life in peace.

She doesn't even want to fight Ellie at the end, because she's such a morally grounded, "good" character, while Ellie is the "bad guy" who couldn't let it go and abandoned Dina and the baby in order to murder Abby for the sake of revenge.



Just look at the dogs to clearly see the insane lengths they went through to try to manipulate people's emotions.

Abby encounters multiple friendly dogs that she can pet/play with. At one point she even has a pet dog named Alice that she can pet/play with, and that saves your life when you're playing as Abby. At no point does Abby ever encounter a hostile dog. None of Abby's enemies have dogs.

Ellie encounters enemy dogs quite often. Dogs she is basically forced to kill. At one point she is forced to kill Abby's pet dog Alice in a qte cutscene.


It's supposed to make you subconsciously think of Ellie as a bad person who kills animals, while Abby is a good person who loves animals.



In the end I wound up hating Abby because she is a very unlikable, poorly written, extremely idiotic character. Their low effort, moronic attempts to manipulate us makes me hate Abby even more.

[azogthedefiler25]

Originally posted by Joe Cool:

Spoiler alert.

Abby's father is presented as a saint of a person, without any sort of flaws at all.

It was written this way in order to portray Joel as the only true "bad guy" of the franchise, because he murdered a defenseless saint of a doctor and doomed the entire human race in order to save Ellie. (Nevermind the fact that her idiot father caused his own death by lunging at Joel with a scalpel. Nevermind the fact that their chances of creating a cure were extremely low verging on nonexistent. Nevermind the fact that Ellie was unconscious and didn't even have the opportunity to choose.)

They wanted to show Abby as a good person. They even have her let Ellie live again after Ellie killed her two friends (including the man she supposedly loved) because she's supposed to be such a "good person" that she doesn't want to kill anymore.

She goes back to save the children, she doesn't want to fight the Seraphites anymore, it's all centered around her being a "good person" who wants to just live her life in peace.

She doesn't even want to fight Ellie at the end, because she's such a morally grounded, "good" character, while Ellie is the "bad guy" who couldn't let it go and abandoned Dina and the baby in order to murder Abby for the sake of revenge.



Just look at the dogs to clearly see the insane lengths they went through to try to manipulate people's emotions.

Abby encounters multiple friendly dogs that she can pet/play with. At one point she even has a pet dog named Alice that she can pet/play with, and that saves your life when you're playing as Abby. At no point does Abby ever encounter a hostile dog. None of Abby's enemies have dogs.

Ellie encounters enemy dogs quite often. Dogs she is basically forced to kill. At one point she is forced to kill Abby's pet dog Alice in a qte cutscene.


It's supposed to make you subconsciously think of Ellie as a bad person who kills animals, while Abby is a good person who loves animals.



In the end I wound up hating Abby because she is a very unlikable, poorly written, extremely idiotic character. Their low effort, moronic attempts to manipulate us makes me hate Abby even more.

Man, I wish i could shake your hand. Just, wow.

[Xato]

Originally posted by azogthedefiler25:

I felt a little bad for Abby but I'm still team Ellie. Abby and her father are self righteous people. I always love hearing Mel tell Abby that she's a piece of ♥♥♥♥. And I don't like Mel either, lol. Abby's dad caused all of this by not giving Joel and Ellie closure BEFORE putting her under without ever speaking to her about her fate. If Joel was given time with Ellie and she told him she wanted to be sacrificed and he still slaughtered everyone, I'd feel better for Abby and her Father. The problem is, part 2 wasn't planned before part 1 was made, so the whole Abby and doctor father stuff didn't even exist. He was a regular npc that you've killed dozens of times in hospital scrubs in the original game.

THIS, this right here is how i feel

[c0r3 錢]

Originally posted by Xato:

During the story, you play as well, see the half story as Ellie
Then you play another half as Abby, and start framing out the whole story

They take you want to grief with Abby, and make you think Joel and Ellie are the bad guys

But why cant we see it the other way around? I mostly see Abby as the villain of the story

If you truly feel that the game is "making" you feel this way, you're a lunatic. For an entire half of the game you stick with an established character and feel her exact same feelings because we've grown with this character, then at the halfway point you switch to Abby to offer PERSPECTIVE- NOT to "make" you feel any sort of way for her. Abby is very clearly a villain but in a nuanced way, but I doubt you have a brain larger than a peanut to understand that.

[Razin_Shah]

The fact that Abby chose to spare Ellie and Tommy shows she is not the villain. She just wanted revenge on Joel and rightfully so. People expecting Joel to live happily ever after, with Ellie after Part 1's ending is being unrealistic. That wouldn't even fit within the theme of Last of Us.

[myperfectvictory]

i blame tommy. tommy is the driver of ellie's revenge. i cant believe the developers let him live through all of the events in the game. hes the one who is feeding her motivation for revenge

[episoder]

Originally posted by myperfectvictory:

i blame tommy. tommy is the driver of ellie's revenge. i cant believe the developers let him live through all of the events in the game. hes the one who is feeding her motivation for revenge

he's joel's brother. he even went before ellie. ellie is partially his rescue mission.

[myperfectvictory]

Originally posted by episoder:

Originally posted by myperfectvictory:

i blame tommy. tommy is the driver of ellie's revenge. i cant believe the developers let him live through all of the events in the game. hes the one who is feeding her motivation for revenge

he's joel's brother. he even went before ellie. ellie is partially his rescue mission.

No ♥♥♥♥. You missed the point entirely. If it wasnt for tommy getting in ellie's head about revenge, there would be no seattle. this plot wouldnt have happened. And since the devs didnt kill him off, he's more than likely going to make another attempt in TLAOU pt 3 if it happens

[myperfectvictory]

Originally posted by episoder:

Originally posted by myperfectvictory:

i blame tommy. tommy is the driver of ellie's revenge. i cant believe the developers let him live through all of the events in the game. hes the one who is feeding her motivation for revenge

he's joel's brother. he even went before ellie. ellie is partially his rescue mission.

Why are you reiterating as if we played two different games? My eyes witnessed the same cutscenes yours did.

[episoder]

Originally posted by myperfectvictory:

No ♥♥♥♥. You missed the point entirely. If it wasnt for tommy getting in ellie's head about revenge, there would be no seattle. this plot wouldnt have happened. And since the devs didnt kill him off, he's more than likely going to make another attempt in TLAOU pt 3 if it happens

did you watch the cutscenes properly? he said jackson doesn't have the resources to go after them. ellie was the one pushing to get there. why he changed, we'll never know. but in the end ellie did her thing and and was sent by maria to rescue her husband.

and... yep... even i had a script for tommy's chapter part 2. i won't throw the details here, but it is kinda logical. ties into the farm and santa barbara area and goes a lil far beyond what a single person can manage to develop. a whole dang city. i dunno if i wanna do it. i'd have to change the ending and character elements of part 2 to give it more substance, but that change is not appreciated. i got flamed for it. so... whatever...

[myperfectvictory]

Originally posted by episoder:

Originally posted by myperfectvictory:

No ♥♥♥♥. You missed the point entirely. If it wasnt for tommy getting in ellie's head about revenge, there would be no seattle. this plot wouldnt have happened. And since the devs didnt kill him off, he's more than likely going to make another attempt in TLAOU pt 3 if it happens

did you watch the cutscenes properly? he said jackson doesn't have the resources to go after them. ellie was the one pushing to get there. why he changed, we'll never know. but in the end ellie did her thing and and was sent by maria to rescue her husband.

And who was it that opened their mouth to Ellie where the WLF was located? Who told Ellie to do it for Joel? Right. He could have went to anyone else but her. Even Jesse. And what would Joel have wanted? You think he would want her to risk her life to get even? Tommy turned into a bad guy imo. i will go as far to say hes worse than isaac

[episoder]

btw... interesting how they changed that in episode 3 of the series. i just watched it.

added things, changed to theater coherency, overall character flips. and they re-took a whole scene in a new and nice environment. very good. no spoilers ofc. :)