would chuds hate the game if abby was a male character?

[Coldflame]

consider:

-masc muscular self insert lead to replace joel
-male abby would be a traditional masculine figure standing up to ellie's woke DEI crew, WLF is fashy compared to the more communist-coded jackson and chuds could get behind it
-without the humiliation of it being a woman who kills joel itd be easier to spin as him just being the weaker soy male

[Rocker]

Coldflame a écrit :

Rocker a écrit :

Such heroic characters have no place in the harsh world of tlou.
Just compare how consistently Joel was motivated to deliver Ellie to her goal. It doesn't compare to an action motivated only by "conscience tormenting".
This is the difference between the well-written, down-to-earth first part and the sequel. The sequel is a good gameplay game with a bad narrative. A barrel of honey with a fly in the ointment.

joel was motivated by a guilty conscience and the fear of losing another child to perform herculean deeds

abby was motivated by a guilty conscience, obligation to reciprocate yara saving her life, and later protecting surrogate family to perform herculean deeds

they are very similar characters, no?

You are missing important nuances that ultimately make the result of the writers' work convincing.
In Joel's case, it is a multi-stage transformation of motivation. Initially, his goal is simple smuggling for weapons.
Then, when everything goes wrong and he almost gave up on the idea, Tess's last agreement before her death comes into play + new information about Ellie's immunity.
Then, after a long time (this is very important), he delivered Ellie to Tommy and this time their affection begins to hold them together, which only grows stronger towards the end.
The entire journey took a whole year, and the development of their relationship looks believable thanks to this.

In Tlou2, the characters helped each other survive and then parted ways. And then, after a bad dream, Abby begins to help children she barely knows, betraying her comrades for their sake. All this happens in too short a period of time.

The stories are similar in some ways, but in fact they are infinitely far from each other in terms of the quality of writing.

[LeftIsBest-James]

Imhigh a écrit :

Muh heroic marvel death Wait until you incels discover Books

all their education comes from PDFs and PNGs of fictitious-graphs-without-sources from 4chan.

[Aria Athena]

Maybe the other side would call the game antisemitic, because of Dina's dinosauric nose.

[Budoshi]

In general it all comes down to : they hate it because joel dies, and since she is the one that kills him they hate her character, thats it , doesnt matter who or why , simple. the rest are just trolls using this to troll.

[Coldflame]

Rocker a écrit :

You are missing important nuances that ultimately make the result of the writers' work convincing.
In Joel's case, it is a multi-stage transformation of motivation. Initially, his goal is simple smuggling for weapons.
Then, when everything goes wrong and he almost gave up on the idea, Tess's last agreement before her death comes into play.
Then, after a long time (this is very important), he delivered Ellie to Tommy and this time their affection begins to hold them together, which only grows stronger towards the end.
The entire journey took a whole year, and the development of their relationship looks believable thanks to this.

In Tlou2, the characters helped each other survive and then parted ways. And then, after a bad dream, Abby begins to help children she barely knows, betraying her comrades for their sake. All this happens in too short a period of time.

The stories are similar in some ways, but in fact they are infinitely far from each other in terms of the quality of writing.

abby goes through a 'multi stage transformation' as well. it isn't as long as drawn out as joel's, partly because she isn't the sole lead of the game and partly because she's a younger, more naive, and less emotionally calloused character than he is.

abby initially helps the people who saved her life get out of immediate danger and to safety- this is perfectly reasonable, even joel at his darkest in tlou1 probably would have done this. she realises the next night that she left them to die, even though they easily could've left her and didn't, and decides to go back to save them. once she gets them from immediate danger to safety, she then has to choose between letting yara die or trying to save her.

from there, she follows the same path as joel tbh, developing a relationship with these characters (esp lev), and eventually protecting her new surrogate brother.

[Razin_Shah]

Coldflame a écrit :

Rocker a écrit :

You are missing important nuances that ultimately make the result of the writers' work convincing.
In Joel's case, it is a multi-stage transformation of motivation. Initially, his goal is simple smuggling for weapons.
Then, when everything goes wrong and he almost gave up on the idea, Tess's last agreement before her death comes into play.
Then, after a long time (this is very important), he delivered Ellie to Tommy and this time their affection begins to hold them together, which only grows stronger towards the end.
The entire journey took a whole year, and the development of their relationship looks believable thanks to this.

In Tlou2, the characters helped each other survive and then parted ways. And then, after a bad dream, Abby begins to help children she barely knows, betraying her comrades for their sake. All this happens in too short a period of time.

The stories are similar in some ways, but in fact they are infinitely far from each other in terms of the quality of writing.

abby goes through a 'multi stage transformation' as well. it isn't as long as drawn out as joel's, partly because she isn't the sole lead of the game and partly because she's a younger, more naive, and less emotionally calloused character than he is.

abby initially helps the people who saved her life get out of immediate danger and to safety- this is perfectly reasonable, even joel at his darkest in tlou1 probably would have done this. she realises the next night that she left them to die, even though they easily could've left her and didn't, and decides to go back to save them. once she gets them from immediate danger to safety, she then has to choose between letting yara die or trying to save her.

from there, she follows the same path as joel tbh, developing a relationship with these characters (esp lev), and eventually protecting her new surrogate brother.

A lot of people seem to miss the in your face cutscenes that shows Abby's guilt over what she did and her nightmares of ending up as bad a person as Joel. Her motivations are mainly driven on not becoming like Joel and to redeem her soul. It's deep stuff.

[Rocker]

Coldflame a écrit :

Rocker a écrit :

You are missing important nuances that ultimately make the result of the writers' work convincing.
In Joel's case, it is a multi-stage transformation of motivation. Initially, his goal is simple smuggling for weapons.
Then, when everything goes wrong and he almost gave up on the idea, Tess's last agreement before her death comes into play.
Then, after a long time (this is very important), he delivered Ellie to Tommy and this time their affection begins to hold them together, which only grows stronger towards the end.
The entire journey took a whole year, and the development of their relationship looks believable thanks to this.

In Tlou2, the characters helped each other survive and then parted ways. And then, after a bad dream, Abby begins to help children she barely knows, betraying her comrades for their sake. All this happens in too short a period of time.

The stories are similar in some ways, but in fact they are infinitely far from each other in terms of the quality of writing.

abby goes through a 'multi stage transformation' as well. it isn't as long as drawn out as joel's, partly because she isn't the sole lead of the game and partly because she's a younger, more naive, and less emotionally calloused character than he is.

abby initially helps the people who saved her life get out of immediate danger and to safety- this is perfectly reasonable, even joel at his darkest in tlou1 probably would have done this. she realises the next night that she left them to die, even though they easily could've left her and didn't, and decides to go back to save them. once she gets them from immediate danger to safety, she then has to choose between letting yara die or trying to save her.

from there, she follows the same path as joel tbh, developing a relationship with these characters (esp lev), and eventually protecting her new surrogate brother.

You told it all as it is. not convincingly.
All of Abby's actions in the second half of the game are only needed to sow the seed of doubt in the player, so that the player would begin to empathize and sympathize with Abby. Only for this reason does an aura of exceptionally good deeds suddenly begin to surround her.
On some, such manipulations by the scriptwriters worked wonderfully. On others, they did not.

[Coldflame]

Rocker a écrit :

Coldflame a écrit :

abby goes through a 'multi stage transformation' as well. it isn't as long as drawn out as joel's, partly because she isn't the sole lead of the game and partly because she's a younger, more naive, and less emotionally calloused character than he is.

abby initially helps the people who saved her life get out of immediate danger and to safety- this is perfectly reasonable, even joel at his darkest in tlou1 probably would have done this. she realises the next night that she left them to die, even though they easily could've left her and didn't, and decides to go back to save them. once she gets them from immediate danger to safety, she then has to choose between letting yara die or trying to save her.

from there, she follows the same path as joel tbh, developing a relationship with these characters (esp lev), and eventually protecting her new surrogate brother.

You told it all as it is. not convincingly.
All of Abby's actions in the second half of the game are only needed to sow the seed of doubt in the player, so that the player would begin to empathize and sympathize with Abby. Only for this reason does an aura of exceptionally good deeds suddenly begin to surround her.
On some, such manipulations by the scriptwriters worked wonderfully. On others, they did not.

chat is it manipulation to convey a character's motivations, personality, and morality through their actions in a story

[robilar5500]

There will always be something for chuds to chud about. Chudding is what they do.

[Danielle]

Honestly? While the complaints would (obviously) shift focus away from gender, I think a lot of people WOULD have been angry about it all the same. That said, I think there might have been a lot more interesting debate about the actual morality of Joel as a character, so it's a shame gamergate 2.0 came along to ruin that