Do you feel like runs are too long?

[Tyrax]

Not necessarily a critique, I'm curious how everyone is feeling about current length. I personally think the battles take too long because there's too many enemies in each and there's also too many battle encounters in a run, which makes even one act take 2-3 hours.

I imagine a full 3 acts run would take 6 hours+ which would normally be ok for a regular single player game, but it seems a bit too long for a roguelike where the point is to run many times and unlock new things..

I think shortening the battles and introducing more interesting non battle events would help.

[Myth Alric]

There is an achievement for completing a run in less than 5 hours. Personally I like it. I think as a rogue like game, each run is kind of long so I see what you are saying. I like that they are doing their own thing and trying to be a bit unique though.

Also when you do a full complete run, you get a lot of resources for unlocking stuff. So it isn't too bad. Instead of a game where you might need to do 30 run to unlock everything, this one might take like 6.

[Tyrax]

Originally posted by Myth Alric:

Also when you do a full complete run, you get a lot of resources for unlocking stuff. So it isn't too bad. Instead of a game where you might need to do 30 run to unlock everything, this one might take like 6.

But you still need to run it more than 6 times if you want the full story and character roster...Maybe as a compromise, there can be a city/"safe area" at the end of every act where you can upgrade/catch up on convos.

[Myth Alric]

Well you can get all the characters in 6 runs, though you probably won't max their friendships and stuff that quickly.

[Virpy]

If the complete run would be shorter it would feel even more repetitive then it already feels. So I'm all against making the full run of an expedition shorter.

Also you dont need to play through one act or expedition in a single sitting you can just close the game after each "crossroads segment" if you like to hop on do something for a few minutes and then continue later at that point. Therefore absolutely no need to shorten it!

[Tyrax]

Originally posted by Virpy:

If the complete run would be shorter it would feel even more repetitive then it already feels. So I'm all against making the full run of an expedition shorter.

Also you dont need to play through one act or expedition in a single sitting you can just close the game after each "crossroads segment" if you like to hop on do something for a few minutes and then continue later at that point. Therefore absolutely no need to shorten it!

It's not about not being able to leave mid run, it's about the fact that you need many runs to unlock everything and see the full story. Most roguelike games limit their runs to 1h mark, otherwise you'll get bored before you unlock even half of the game.

I do agree though we need more interesting non combat events.

[Virpy]

Do you want to finish the game and all of its meta progression in 10h of playing the game? This would be very disappointing and limiting to the overall gameplay experience. I'm already getting bored after 4 days of playing because I mostly finished the meta progression and the few missing parts in the Altar of Fire and merchant upgrade are very lame and unsatisfying to hunt for.

If anything I'd wish for way more and impactful meta progession to keep me busy for weeks or even months to come.

[jojo]

Well it is also a strategy game, so I think it will always be a bit longer than your average roguelike. They already sped up the gameplay significantly from the 1st game (which wasnt a roguelike at all) by sizing down the maps and teams.
Also your runs should become a bit faster as you get used to the gameplay. The 5h achievement does not require you to speedrun the game, even ~3h for a complete run are absolutly doable.

[Tyrax]

Originally posted by Virpy:

Do you want to finish the game and all of its meta progression in 10h of playing the game? This would be very disappointing and limiting to the overall gameplay experience. I'm already getting bored after 4 days of playing because I mostly finished the meta progression and the few missing parts in the Altar of Fire and merchant upgrade are very lame and unsatisfying to hunt for.

If anything I'd wish for way more and impactful meta progession to keep me busy for weeks or even months to come.

No, but as a compromise I think we should be able to visit a city after each act, to at least catch up on convos and progress some side story.

[jojo]

Originally posted by Tyrax:

Originally posted by Virpy:

Do you want to finish the game and all of its meta progression in 10h of playing the game? This would be very disappointing and limiting to the overall gameplay experience. I'm already getting bored after 4 days of playing because I mostly finished the meta progression and the few missing parts in the Altar of Fire and merchant upgrade are very lame and unsatisfying to hunt for.

If anything I'd wish for way more and impactful meta progession to keep me busy for weeks or even months to come.

No, but as a compromise I think we should be able to visit a city after each act, to at least catch up on convos and progress some side story.

long term that should be worth it

[Gnk*]

Originally posted by jojo:

Also your runs should become a bit faster as you get used to the gameplay. The 5h achievement does not require you to speedrun the game, even ~3h for a complete run are absolutly doable.

This.
And once you unlock the greater blessings your time to clear an expedition lowers by a lot.
My last run was 2h 30 min (+press "esc" during enemy turn...)

[Tyrax]

Originally posted by Gnk*:

Originally posted by jojo:

Also your runs should become a bit faster as you get used to the gameplay. The 5h achievement does not require you to speedrun the game, even ~3h for a complete run are absolutly doable.

This.
And once you unlock the greater blessings your time to clear an expedition lowers by a lot.
My last run was 2h 30 min (+press "esc" during enemy turn...:happyelf:)

What are these greater blessings I keep hearing about - are you referring to the altar? If so, the unlocks don't feel that big... It's like +2 magic defence, +3 magic attack.

[jojo]

Originally posted by Tyrax:

Originally posted by Gnk*:

This.
And once you unlock the greater blessings your time to clear an expedition lowers by a lot.
My last run was 2h 30 min (+press "esc" during enemy turn...:happyelf:)

What are these greater blessings I keep hearing about - are you referring to the altar? If so, the unlocks don't feel that big... It's like +2 magic defence, +3 magic attack.

Thats the small ones, At altar lvl 7 you can get a big one

[Tyrax]

Originally posted by jojo:

Originally posted by Tyrax:

What are these greater blessings I keep hearing about - are you referring to the altar? If so, the unlocks don't feel that big... It's like +2 magic defence, +3 magic attack.

Thats the small ones, At altar lvl 7 you can get a big one

I see. But that actually reinforces my main point - it takes ages to progress the meta and, for example, get to level 7 altar. On average, you get ~40 embers per run (depending on rng and what paths you get) - and you use those for maybe 4-8 minor nodes (some need 5, but others need 15).

[Butcher]

I would like longer runs, 5 acts maybe with higher level cap.

Originally posted by Tyrax:

I imagine a full 3 acts run would take 6 hours+ which would normally be ok for a regular single player game, but it seems a bit too long for a roguelike where the point is to run many times and unlock new things.

A single run in Tales of Maj Eyal (ToME) may take over 25 hours. Runs in ADoM may take over 30. Run in Wazhack could take 15+ hours.

[jojo]

Originally posted by Tyrax:

Originally posted by jojo:

Thats the small ones, At altar lvl 7 you can get a big one

I see. But that actually reinforces my main point - it takes ages to progress the meta and, for example, get to level 7 altar. On average, you get ~40 embers per run (depending on rng and what paths you get) - and you use those for maybe 4-8 minor nodes (some need 5, but others need 15).

i guess we just have different ideas of how long ages are.
Accepting your numbers (I would say ~40 embers is pretty low for a successful run, the lowest i have ever gotten is 46 when i completly focused on money to get the 10k gold achievement. So I have to assume you are also considering failed runs which should significantly lower the average runtime as well), 4-8 minor nodes per run doesnt seem like a bad progression rate to me. Thats half or even a full altar level per run. The lvl. 7 altar and major blessings are lategame, there isnt much meta progression after that