Multiplayer Brainstorm

[Vyltyx]

Ever since Flippfly decided to ask the community what it would like added next to Race the Sun, multiplayer has been on the table. I think it's a great idea, but currently it's pretty hazy how it should be implemented. So imma makin' a thread 'bout it.

I guess a few things before I start...

1. Some people may not like the idea of multiplayer. If you are one of these people, submit ideas according to your idea of the "lesser evil" multiplayer. Basically, if Flippfly was to implement multiplayer, what would the best-case scenario look like?

2. No idea is too stupid to post. Don't get me wrong, lot's of ideas are too stupid to IMPLEMENT, but that does not mean they should never be said. Many times have I seen a stupid idea be the basis of inspiration for a great one.

3. Politeness and respect, as always.

4. Stay on topic. This isn't the place to campaign for your amazing idea of adding velociraptors, or adding a moon or something.

With that said, discuss! I'll start by saying that I really don't feel like the best implementation is a relay race (one of the early ideas for multiplayer). If you hadn't heard of it, it's basically like this--- Every so often, the game would hold a co-op relay race, where the participants were on teams competing for a high score. Basically, each member of the team gets one life. When a player dies, they hand off their exact spot on the map to the next member of the team. They attempt to get as far as possible with their limited number of lives. The team with

The reason I don't like this is because their it doesn't change the gameplay at all. The only thing changing is your starting position (and that doesn't even change for the first member of the team). Other than that, it feels exactly like a normal game mode.

Thats why I feel like multiplayer would have to be competitive. It would drastically change the gameplay, and provide something else for the those not interested in the leaderboards. I'll add more to this thread when I've taken the time to think through some of the ideas I have.

[Eddie]

2 ships teathered together so they have to stay with eachother, if one slows they both slow, and they cant take different paths.

[Vyltyx]

It seems like they woud die pretty fast that way, unless they were in the same room as each other communicating everything. Also, are they alone, or are they playing against another team of tethered transports?

[<M.o.K> Samurai]

Email I sent to flippfly on Oct 3, 2013

I like your idea of asynch multiplayer. It isn’t explored often, and seems to be implemented well here.

I however, yearn to see synchronous MP in Race The Sun.

I was thinking this could be accomplished in one of a few ways:

1) Last Ship Standing – One or more ships in the same “instance” of the world at the same time. The last one to survive is the only one who posts a score. Round ends when all others die

2) Battle – The ships have collision and can push one another around. Since the world is pattern based, they should not be able to get too far from one another (world wraps essentially).

3) Sun Keepers – A mode for two ships. The further they drift apart, the faster the sun goes down.

4) Synchronous Relay – Just like your asynch mode, but everyone spectates while the race goes on.

5) MMO style – All the ships are present in the same instance of the world. No collision between ships, nor consumption of powerups. Just could be fun/hectic to see the world “alive” with all the players

6) Ikaruga Style – One ship is solar+, one is solar-. Solar+ must stay in the light to charge, Solar- must stay in shadow. The players have a button that will swap “primary/lead” ship at will. Primary/lead ship controls movement while secondary ship waits.
For this mode to remain balanced, a moon must be made for after the sun falls below the horizon. The moon will invert the sun/shadow areas to even things out.

Thanks!

[Vyltyx]

Originally posted by <M.o.K>Samurai Jack-ing Off:

Email I sent to flippfly on Oct 3, 2013

I like your idea of asynch multiplayer. It isn’t explored often, and seems to be implemented well here.

I however, yearn to see synchronous MP in Race The Sun.

I was thinking this could be accomplished in one of a few ways:

1) Last Ship Standing – One or more ships in the same “instance” of the world at the same time. The last one to survive is the only one who posts a score. Round ends when all others die

2) Battle – The ships have collision and can push one another around. Since the world is pattern based, they should not be able to get too far from one another (world wraps essentially).

3) Sun Keepers – A mode for two ships. The further they drift apart, the faster the sun goes down.

4) Synchronous Relay – Just like your asynch mode, but everyone spectates while the race goes on.

5) MMO style – All the ships are present in the same instance of the world. No collision between ships, nor consumption of powerups. Just could be fun/hectic to see the world “alive” with all the players

6) Ikaruga Style – One ship is solar+, one is solar-. Solar+ must stay in the light to charge, Solar- must stay in shadow. The players have a button that will swap “primary/lead” ship at will. Primary/lead ship controls movement while secondary ship waits.
For this mode to remain balanced, a moon must be made for after the sun falls below the horizon. The moon will invert the sun/shadow areas to even things out.

Thanks!

First off, the ones I like the most:

2) Something I've been wanting for a long time, however, I think it should be a little more fleshed out than what was posted. For starters, I would give the world an edge (could just be a line of mountains on either side). Because it would be much more narrow, and you would have other people going after you, the obstacles would have to reduced, at least at the start of the race. Because of the reduction of obstacles, I would add weapons as well, as there need to be an alternate method of destroying your opponents other then pushing them into an obstacle (this would require a health bar on your ship). Just imagine... a laser weapon that fires straight ahead of you, lightly damaging anything it touches. A sniper weapon, with a large amount of damage, but the drawback is you have to look down a scope to use it (which is not recommended with a lot of obstacles around you). A flash bomb that drops directly behind you upon activation (the radius would have to be a little smaller than the one in game). You could have one that lays down a line of small ball obstacles. etc. etc. etc. I'll prob make post a complete list of weapon ideas a little later. Also, the whole battle idea wouldn't really work, it would have to be an actual race. Because if it's an infinite battle, the only way it could work is if everyone stayed at the exact same speed as everyone else. Think about it. The moment you collide with something, and everyone races ahead, you can't push them around anymore. The only thing you could do would be to fire a weapon at them, if you even see them. Eventually, after a certain amount of time, the people that are left will be so far apart from each other that they won't be able to interact. Then it becomes an endurance test, and the competitive spirit is gone. It would also get quite boring if the last players were both good enough to indefinitely dodge obstacles.

3) This seems ridiculously fun. Similar to Eddie's tethered ship idea, except that you have the choice to stay together or farther apart. You'd have to make it so that if one player slows down, the other one slows down as well (or else the players would either lose sight of one another, and lose pretty fast, or they would play follow the leader, and that wouldn't be very fun). Also, some of the obstacle would have to be tweaked, like the two giant blocks that come down to make a narrow passageway.

6) THIS. THIS IS GENIUS. The battery would have to be adjusted, so that it loses power much quicker (becasue honestly, there's not enough shadow in the starting levels to warrant shifting to solar-). I also think it's kind of ironic that I posted "This isn't the place to campaign for your amazing idea of adding velociraptors, or adding a moon or something." Now all we need to do is add velociraptors :p

Now for the ones I don't really like....

1) As said above, this is what I see 2) turning into, and it doesn't appeal to me

2) I don't see why spectating makes it better. What would be cool is if we could spectate anything, but that is a discussion for another topic.

5) I don't get it. Maybe a little more explanation would be helpful.

[<M.o.K> Samurai]

1) Last Ship Standing:
Just think of it as a highly competitive race mode. Perhaps we could limit it to say, 4 players per instance of the world. Each one of the four is vying to post a score/score points. There is no way for it to indefinitely continue with only one survivor (As the round ends when only one ship remains). If someone dies early, that is unfortunate for them. They'll either have to wait until the other 2 players die or they can drop out of the room. Perhaps making each instance dynamic drop in/drop out would solve the ADD issue. I know I get antsy when I die in games without instant respawn, but that just teaches you to improve your playstyle.

2) Battle:
I think we've both addressed this as best we can at current. I'm basing my idea off the constraint that movement remains locked to X-Axis only. Weapons and the like have no place in that environment.

Vyltyx, the fundamental constraint I put on all my suggestions (which you appear not to have put on your multiplayer ideas) is that movement will remain as it is currently. Meaning, all players will travel as they currently do, and all ships will ONLY move at will on the X-Axis. With your suggestion regarding weaponry, you'd need to allow the player ships freedom to move in the Y-Axis and possibly Z-Axis to make the weapons have a point and to make it be enjoyable.

I had suggested simply pushing one another into obstacles as this method of fighting would not fundamentally change the core movement mechanics of Race The Sun at all, and that is important to me. I do see what you've suggested however. There are ways to work around that, and we can certainly brainstorm some here.

3) Sun Keepers:
I disagree on the tweaks. That is what would make Sun Keepers so challenging. If you do smack something and slow down, you've basically just made things incredibly hard on both of you. Your teammate has the option of trying to hit something to slow down as well (putting you both close together and extending the sun's life), but if they do it wrong, they die and your turn is over. Think of the amount of cooperation and teamwork this mode would require. It would be very difficult, and that is exactly how I envision it.

4) Synchronous Relay:
Any suggestions?

5) MMO Style:
Have you ever played TrackMania? Every other player in the server is represented by a semi-transparent ghost. There is no collision between the players. You're simply vying for the best time, but you can see those around you. This can be either a distraction, or an inspiration for how you should drive. I envision the same thing here. Think of how alive the world would seem with tons of other ships zipping around the level with you. This idea is oftentimes coined "massively multiplayer singleplayer".

6) Ikaruga Style:
Glad you enjoy it, though sadly it is just an adaptation of someone else's work.
I think you could be onto something with the battery, though perhaps it could simply be balanced out by making the blocks used for this mode simply be taller so there are longer / denser shadows.

Now, as to the sun/moon cycle. Time/countdown based? Have it switch every Region? Have it switch at random? That point is critical, and I'd like feedback on that aspect.

[Vyltyx]

Just a few ideas for some new weapons (should competitive multiplayer be implemented).

I believe that weapons should work like mariokart; you gain access to them by collecting them during the race, and using them consumes the weapon, after which you must collect it again. I think though, that instead of only being able to collect a single weapon, you should be able to collect one of each type.

However, unlike mariokart, there should be a health bar on your ship. When your health bar goes to zero, you ship dies, and after a breif moment, you respawn (much like falling off the edge in mariokart). Running headlong into an obstacle is insta-death (like always).

Of course, this sort of system would require that the tracks not be infinite, with a definite starting point and finish line. As for possible weapons, here's what I've come up with so far...

Missile: Basic homing attack, one use, deals moderate damage. no pathfinding, so flying in between it and an obstacle would work for dodging it. The player being targeted will be notified somehow.

Laser: Fires a laser straight ahead for a few seconds. Low damage, but extremely high fire rate. Might have the ability to fire through obstacles?

Snipe: High damage, but requires you to aim through a scope for a certain amount of time. Because it narrows your field of vision, not recommended when you have to dodge a lot of things. After activation, you look through the scope for a certain amount of time (2 seconds?) and then the gun automatically deals damage. Breaking line of sight will cause the weapon to deactivate (you won't lose it's use, you just have to reactivate it).

Flash Bomb: No damage, detonates directly behind your craft. Enemies flying through the explosion are blinded for a certain time.

Tacks: Spawns a line of small spike obstacles directly behind your craft. Designed to slow down opponents, so they should shaped so that head-on collisions are impossible. This would really only be an effective weapon on a track with laps.

Insta-Block: Spawns a medium sized directly behind the craft. Has a short delay, with charging animation on the ship activating it (so people behind it have some chance to dodge. Dissappears after a time.

EMP: All opponents within a certain radius lose all their stocked weapons. Has a short delay, and a charging animation, so that people have a chance to dodge. The field persist for .5 seconds.

I'll add some new weapons later, and maybe some ideas for multiplayer upgrades, beyond the standard five.

[Vyltyx]

Originally posted by <M.o.K>Samurai Jack-ing Off:

1) Last Ship Standing:
Just think of it as a highly competitive race mode. Perhaps we could limit it to say, 4 players per instance of the world. Each one of the four is vying to post a score/score points. There is no way for it to indefinitely continue with only one survivor (As the round ends when only one ship remains). If someone dies early, that is unfortunate for them. They'll either have to wait until the other 2 players die or they can drop out of the room. Perhaps making each instance dynamic drop in/drop out would solve the ADD issue. I know I get antsy when I die in games without instant respawn, but that just teaches you to improve your playstyle.

I just don't see this as highly competitive. It doesn't change the way I would play the game. In fact, it might just make it more boring. Because winning is not based on distance or score, but on survival, it encourages people to not take any risk. It's just that I see a lot of people flying in relatively straight lines for a long time.

Originally posted by <M.o.K>Samurai Jack-ing Off:

Vyltyx, the fundamental constraint I put on all my suggestions (which you appear not to have put on your multiplayer ideas) is that movement will remain as it is currently. Meaning, all players will travel as they currently do, and all ships will ONLY move at will on the X-Axis. With your suggestion regarding weaponry, you'd need to allow the player ships freedom to move in the Y-Axis and possibly Z-Axis to make the weapons have a point and to make it be enjoyable.

Changes in the Y-axis would be achieved through players hitting booster powerups, as well as hitting obstacles (just slowing down, and full on death collisions).

Originally posted by <M.o.K>Samurai Jack-ing Off:

3) Sun Keepers:
I disagree on the tweaks. That is what would make Sun Keepers so challenging. If you do smack something and slow down, you've basically just made things incredibly hard on both of you. Your teammate has the option of trying to hit something to slow down as well (putting you both close together and extending the sun's life), but if they do it wrong, they die and your turn is over. Think of the amount of cooperation and teamwork this mode would require. It would be very difficult, and that is exactly how I envision it.

After reading this, I completely agree. This would also make getting seperated even more dangerous, as you won't realize that your partner is on a different point in the Y-axis until it's too late.

Originally posted by <M.o.K>Samurai Jack-ing Off:

5) MMO Style:
Have you ever played TrackMania? Every other player in the server is represented by a semi-transparent ghost. There is no collision between the players. You're simply vying for the best time, but you can see those around you. This can be either a distraction, or an inspiration for how you should drive. I envision the same thing here. Think of how alive the world would seem with tons of other ships zipping around the level with you. This idea is oftentimes coined "massively multiplayer singleplayer".

Still not really seeing it, but I definitly have a better idea now. How would the sun work? Would everyone start at the same time, or could people jump into a room at any time?

Originally posted by <M.o.K>Samurai Jack-ing Off:

6) Ikaruga Style:
Glad you enjoy it, though sadly it is just an adaptation of someone else's work.
I think you could be onto something with the battery, though perhaps it could simply be balanced out by making the blocks used for this mode simply be taller so there are longer / denser shadows.

Now, as to the sun/moon cycle. Time/countdown based? Have it switch every Region? Have it switch at random? That point is critical, and I'd like feedback on that aspect.

Just because it's an adaptation, doesn't mean it doesn't have a place in Race the Sun. When I said genius, I wasn't talking about the idea... I was talking about you recognizing the potential for this mode in Race the Sun.

As for the moon thing, I would either have it time-based (with a low countdown) or have it do it randomly. Basically I think it should be able to switch in the middle of a level, instead of the player just instinctually shifting in the gap between regions.

[<M.o.K> Samurai]

After further reading your comments, I think Last Ship Standing and Battle really are the same idea. Perhaps when combined they'd be more competitive?

5) MMO Style:
Well, getting a bit technical, the only thing that would sync to the server would be the player positions. The sun would remain client-side for each connected client. So, each one would see the sun only as it appears for them, but with the ghosts of all the other current players flying about. It wouldn't require rooms or anything else as there is no cooperative/competitive aspect.
This sort of shows what I'm after: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9DZrnYi0pE
Everyone is out doing their own thing, but you feel like the world is more alive because you see everyone around you doing their thing too.

6) Ikrauga Style:
Yeah, you're right. We need to keep it dynamic enough so it doesn't get boring. We can't let it go really long for either player...

[<M.o.K> Samurai]

Yyltyx, what would you say to constrained Y-axis movement for your destruction multiplayer mode?

If you've played Torus Trooper or Data Jammers you'll have an idea of what I mean. Basically, there is a box in which the player can move the ship freely. Going too far on the Y-Axis would just cause the ship to not move further.

[Glaiceana]

I agree that a last ship standing mode would be a lot of fun. Limit it to about 20 players, since the world is still quite open and people can drift over.
I love your battle and sun keepers ideas Samurai, they would be great modes to implement. Perhaps in this battle mode, every ship just gets a single basic shield attachment, only for bashing into other ships.

[Madra]

*Rubs hands together*
*breathes life back into this thread*

Seriously though a competitive multiplayer mode on this game would be awesome.

Have your ship placed a decent chunk of distance away from your "buddy"
on the same map, first one to crash loses -and ofc you could very well fly on over and
make your best'est pal burst into sparkly pieces with gentle nudges Mwhahahhaa-

Anyways.. I doubt even the OP is still subbed to this thread but multiplayer in general is still a cool idea and it would bring in more of a fan base to this game plus a chunk of the old crowd that's moved on to other things, win/win amirigh :D

Ok, back to my cave now :(