Ship Weapons - more variety

[El Chico Gordo]

Just a question - maybe a suggestion.

I noticed there are basically only energy weapons available. Some turrets like the Scrapper Turret are slightly different but I would really love to see something like an "anti-aircraft gun" for space fight - attack and defense. Possibly even for shooting incoming missiles.

It wouldn't have to have much damage but being faster instead. Would be fine with me if these turrets then also use ammo as well so one has to plan these actions better than with energy weapons. However at least to me that would give some different tactics since currently one has to plan every shot pretty well, having only a few before the turret is overheating. On the other hand I think it would be nicer, giving a bit more action in battles for the weapons officer.

So take it as a suggestion, request or even a question if anything like that is either planned or even available (and I just missed it so far).

Would be great!

[obvious]

plasma turret, railgun turret and defender turret are physical damage. Flamelance turret is physical + fire, biohazard is physical + acid.
Phase turret is neither energy not physical.
Lightning is energy, but additionally overcharges enemy ships. The scrapper turret you mentioned already.
There is quite some variety already, actually.

[El Chico Gordo]

Ah, sorry I guess I expressed myself not perfectly.
What I meant was not the type of weapon that is the same. I know there are different types of damage etc.
But what they all have in comon is their slow rate of fire and recharging etc.
No matter what turret they all feel like a big, heavy turret where I would prefer a quick, lightweight type that might be less "precise" but quick.

Aside from that it might have the mentioned effects like shooting incoming missiles. That is why I named it "anti-aircraft-gun" type.

[Saturn]

Originally posted by El Chico GordoGER:

Aside from that it might have the mentioned effects like shooting incoming missiles. That is why I named it "anti-aircraft-gun" type.

I could have misread this entirely, but there are at least two ways to shoot down missiles. The Main Turret has a quick-firing laser that can shoot down missiles, and the Laser/Focused Laser Turrets, both of which can easily shoot down missiles.

A while back (before they updated all the components/weapons/etc) I cataloged the various parts, weapons (etc) for Pulsar (since the wiki was severely lacking, at least at the time).

PHYSICAL TURRETS:
Auto Railgun: Doesn't take up normal turret slots, but still uses energy. Automatically aims, cannot be controlled.

Railgun: Fast firing with medium range, somewhat lower DPS (due to heating issues).

Plasma: Higher DPS than Railgun, with a lower range.

Burst: Fires a burst of four shots.

Spreadshot: Acts like a close-range shotgun that fires a bunch of projectiles.

Biohazard: Temporarily reduces enemy ship armor.

Flamelance: Causes onboard fires and overheats reactors.

Defender: If I remember correctly this is like a mini-missile turret.

ENERGY TURRETS:

Laser: "Powerful against ship hull and systems" and can shoot down missiles.

Focused Laser: Double the energy and double the damage of the normal Laser Turret

Scrapper: A very weak beam with more energy requirements than Laser Turret, but can create extra scrap when damaging a ship. AFAIK you can only get this on the WD Prototype ship (ie not through a store).

Phase: Deals less damage to hull and shields, but a high amount of damage to ship systems.

Lightning: More damage to shields and less damage to hull. It can also shutdown the enemy ship.

Sylvassi: I haven't yet gotten/used this one, so I'm not sure what the benefit is.

The main turrets (Main Turret, Flashfire, CU Long Range, Keeper Beam, Rapidfire, and Coil Gun) are mostly energy type weapons, with the exception of the Coil Gun.

I believe (and could be wrong!) that the missiles are all physical weapons (except maybe the Shield Piercer, which has increased shield damage). I assume this because of the WD Special description stating "...greatly increased physical damage", as well as the Defender Turret dealing physical damage.

So in a way there are more physical weapons than energy weapons (assuming missiles are physical). The Main Turrets balance this out by being almost entirely energy-based.

I firmly agree that the game needs more variety, especially in terms of common (easy to find in terms of stations and low-chaos enemies) weapons. It would be nice to see a super-fast firing weapon with super-low damage (a chain gun), as well as a super-slow firing weapon with super high damage (a sniper). Similarly it'd be nice to see a laser with a larger laser (an easier-to-hit/more accurate laser due to having a larger hitbox), a laser that deals more damage the longer you charge it (possibly charging for a long time). A really nice weapon for cloaking playstyles would be something that dealt damage over time, allowing players to attack and then cloak, attack and then cloak.

[El Chico Gordo]

Hey thanks for your comment.
However I guess I didn't clarify my idea well enough.
Sure there are many different weapons. However they all follow a certain formula.
They have a few shots, then they overcharge and require idle time. That is basically even true for missiles.
What I had in mind was a "different gameplay" type. So instead of having a strong shot and then time to wait another one could be the "spray and pray" type which in contrast is weak and limited by ammunition.
This then would give some more flexibility in weapon usage.

But well, thats perhaps just my wish. I'm not the biggest fan of these Star Treky phaser fights and would prefer a Battlestar Galactica anti aircraft scenario instead. But thats perhaps just me.

[obvious]

The main turrets have different shooting styles. Rapidfire is quick shooting, CU longrange is more sniper.
Sylvassi sword is not a turret, it is a laser built into the sylvassi ships helm.

[El Chico Gordo]

Yes sure they are slightly different. But still it feels the same in the regard of how to use it. I mean for instance the Sylvassi sword is basically a laser turret, too. Just a pretty strong and slow one. But that is what I mean. I find them still pretty similar in style. Even the quick laser guns on the main turret are not really capable of firing more than 3-4 shots before overheating.

As I said - even though I know that comparison is weak - it's still Star Trek not BSG.

Anyway, I guess that's a question of personal preference. Especially because I think it might be more work implementing a bullet system to the ship combat.

[obvious]

I mean, well, all turrets will be basically big things that fire smaller things (either bullets or electromagnetic particles) at other things. There is only so much variety you can do with that. :/
The quicker laser gun is not meant for quick firing. It is an interception laser to snipe missiles or mines. If you could fire it more it would be massively op.
Try rapidfire + skills & processors that increase turret loading&cooling. And you should get realtively close to having some high frequency firing. Railgun also can be quite fast?

Thing is, if you have a gun that fires lots of small things really quickly it becomes unbelievable at a certain point in a sci-fi space combat setting. There will always be little "bullets" of asteroid bumping into your ship and they don't register in most cases. So turrets need to meet a specific damage threshold in order to make a significant enough damage so that it can breach shield&hull that are designed to survive bumps with stone "projectiles" at up to several hundred km/h. Spam guns I don't really see easily in sci-fi settings. Because either each shot should be too weak to register or the gun would be massively op. Maybe they can come up with a convincing insanely fast gun at some point though?

Still I think it is a bit unfair to claim there would be no variety just because the one weapon type you want is not existing as pronouncedly as you'd want in the game.

[El Chico Gordo]

Hm, well not sure this is "unfair" when stating that basically most weapons work the same. In fact it isn't even meant to be insulting. But I still feel that they all behave pretty similar in the underlying mechanism.
As mentioned before, they basically have very few shots, then a long idle time. Some more, others less. And sure not all fire laser shots - but many do. So I felt it would be a good addition having something different. Especially since it isn't meant to replace current weapons.
If you don't like it I'm all in on keeping laser weapons and missiles! They are nice!
I just feel a bit more variety can't hurt. So please don't feel offended by that suggestion. After all it is a wish for having more options for fun in the game. I don't think that would really hurt in any way.

-----

Well, having that hopefully solved, here is probably a better explanation on what was in my mind. I don't want something that has to be over powering . In fact I like complex and possibly even more difficult games. So having a kind of "mini gun" or "anti aircraft gun" for your ship is meant to give a wider range of gameplay - especially for the weapons officer. Sure it sounds heavy at first but doesn't have to be.

First of all it doesn't necessarily mean something bad if you have expensive powerful weapons. After all there could be bigger and stronger enemies in the later end game and far more dangerous missions which require heavy weaponry. So you might see it as an additional layer of end game content.

Secondly - as stated before - it would come with negative effects, too. Make it expensive, make it use bullets (so you have to reload, buy new ammo at stations etc.) or make it less accurate... there are really no limits. See it as a shotgun or assault rifle instead of "laser sniper rilfes". It could even be a defensive weapon that only creates a "bullet wall" in order to keep enemy ships and missiles away. Even decoy flares if you consider it countermeasure munition. So just because it fires many shots in a shorter time doesn't mean it has to be overpowering.
On the other hand these - even defensive weapons would give the the weapons officer another option and thus more to do since they are currently waiting half the time for a cool down.

And regarding the believability I think I had less the 80s SciFi movies in mind but more like contemporary naval battle ships which are far from firing 2-3 bullets before overheating. That is also why I mentioned Battlestar Galactica earlier. In that series their main battery is such an anti aircraft gun and other counter measures.
Sure the one in the series is a huge battle ship with many smaller supporting vessels and fighters etc. so that's far bigger than what the game should do! No question about that!!! (Here is a small clip showing some scenes from the series. Sure that is too much for this game, however I trust you in extracting the information I have in mind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUcrdlIjvsI )

But I still find it more appealing getting some action and less idle time for gunners. If it's a faster gun, fine. If it's decoy flares, also great! It surely couldn't hurt giving them more options.

[Saturn]

I 100% agree that more weapons will make Pulsar a lot better. I think that will be later on, though. I'd love some variance in how they "feel", even if DPS is more-or-less the same (1 shot every 10 seconds for 1000 DPS vs 10 shots every 1 second for 1000 DPS).

[El Chico Gordo]

Glad to have others feel the same.

Aside from that, the more I think about it, other counter measures could be really nice, too.
I imagine buying them in space docks for some money so they become something valuable as a last resort.

[Saturn]

Originally posted by El Chico GordoGER:

Glad to have others feel the same.

Aside from that, the more I think about it, other counter measures could be really nice, too.
I imagine buying them in space docks for some money so they become something valuable as a last resort.

What about a new auto turret that only shot down missiles? I think that'd be interesting (especially as we only have a single type of auto turret).

[El Chico Gordo]

Originally posted by Haunter:

What about a new auto turret that only shot down missiles? I think that'd be interesting (especially as we only have a single type of auto turret).

Well, aside from having (arguable) "cooler weapons" I was hoping to give the weapons officer more things to do. So another auto turret is not really what I had in mind.
Instead I assumed having another button that might release a bunch of anti missile meassures when seeing some incoming.

[Saturn]

The weapon's officer is too important to "do anything else" while in combat. It'd be nice to have a "downtime" activity, though.They (weapon officers) need to focus on shooting the main turret. So they can add new main turrets, but ultimately the role of the weapon officer is extreme damage, and any other playstyle could actually hinder a team. And I get it's not quite what you're asking, but there already is a button for the main turret to fire an anti-missile beam (that isn't the main beam), as well as side-turrets (ie not auto, not main) that shoot down missiles. Adding any type of missile counter measure would only be a "cool" version of shooting down missiles with your various beams.

I'd much prefer entirely new weapon styles, such as grappling hooks that reduce quantum shields and hold ships in place, or gravitational weapons that cause ships to be drawn into a location, weapons that focus on knockback (more than the current weapons) that could potentially slam ships into asteroids, etc.

[El Chico Gordo]

Yes sure, you are right. It's not like the weapon officer is useless and sure there is no time for running around in the ship etc.
My original comment came from the feeling of being idle often enough when shooting. Not really long, more like that it happens pretty often that I must wait for a second or two. But when this happens many times in combat, it feels a bit repetitive and like waste of time.
I would like to do something while waiting for the cool down and this was why I started with that thread.
And yes, there is the quick laser for shooting missiles. But it also depends on the heat of the main turret so using it ends in even more "idle time" before shooting the main turret again. This is why I suggested having something else to do so it gets more versatile - hence the idea of releasing "flares" when needed.