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I think NG+ is a continuation and "replay" of the the first run, because you have to experience the final ending to unlock the choice to stay with her. The game make it VERY clear that you have to see the ending first. It's not like safe's code and you can randomly unlock if you know about it. You have to experience being full "cartridged" first. That's why Crazy Mita was so confused that you choose to stay with her. There were other players that stayed with her before, but you are the one who rejected her before.
Because I think she is replayed the game the same way in NG+, that I deem her "not clever". Some minor detail like why was she keeping Kind Mita in a cell with a pipe that can make noise? I thought she can edit the pipe out. The end game make it clear that was not her intention for the player and Kind Mita to meet,
She want us to love her but constantly terrorized us. If she make up some sob story, then many players would have a change of heart. She is incapable of learning the fact that killing other Mitas just make Player never want to spend time with her.
She also can't work with other Mitas, She can kill and reset them if they find out about her true nature. Most of them would sing her praise if she played her cards right. That should be the most logical decision if I am Crazy Mita, The actual crazy Mita can't do that because she is too jealous of them,
In most AI story, the AI learn logical process first, then develop feeling later. Crazy MIta develop feeling first, then learn skills, but she is incapable of making some logical decisions. That is more like a story about human than a story about AI.
She does not "love", and cannot feel "love" one person. The only thing she does is wnating attention, getting attention, getting bored, kill and try another one, its an non ending loop. Thats literally how the game starts and finish.
People who like her are probably half ded npcs lol
I agree. Remember DDLC? It's a bittersweet ending because Monica actually love you. Crazy Mita seem like she can only feel negative emotion, there is no helping her.
Even the quote that "she is also Mita, she also want to be loved after all" came from Kind Mita? Who never knew that Crazy Mita was not an Mita who got corrupted. From the start, She was a defect that got loose
The fact that "Mita want to feel love" is still true. Because Crazy Mita failed the quality control process and she is never given her skin to begin with. She is not Mita.
Wiat for the vr mod to be avaible and see how powerful she is recieving slaps
Im pretty sure Monica, if given the power to meet other players and do weird poop, would not "love" you. Thing about Monica is that she was designed to love you, and only you, like the other girls, thats why she ended up nut and obssesed by her main code core. Monica's love is not really pure love, its obssesion.
Monika is like other MITA in this games, designed to enjoy the Player's company. She is designed to LOVE you, positive AND negative aspect of love. Monika did try to back off when we delete her file, (remember that she was still in the game afterward). And she also able to love and appreciate other girls in the end. Delete the game herself to end every one's misery is what make Monika truly capable of love.
She want to buy times to record you into another Cartridge, simple as that. We are just another player that is eternally by her side. I don't see any time she actually tried to be good. She may TELL us that she wanted to, but her ACTIONS betrayed her words. She killed most Mitas we know of, except teacher Mita and Ugly Mita. The two Mitas that don't interact with other players.
She kill MILA for no reason. She repeatedly kill Tiny Mita, and send an abusive player her way because she was jealous. She kill Kind Mita even though she is capable to spare her.
I thought she wanted to stop Kind Mita because they threatened her existence. Kind Mita never had a chance to begin with. They were on a wild goose chase from the start, Kind Mita is already doomed to fail, why kill her?
Q: Is the player a cartridge since the beginning of the game?
A: No, the player is recorded during the game on the cartridge.
There is literally a magazine talking about "who can make a better inventive AI" in the player's house (under mirror).
I disagree. In our first encounter with Crazy Mita, she keeps looking for feedback. For example when we tell her this feels like a dream, she immediately responds "so that makes you want to forget it and leave?", later when we want to examine the locker, she says with frustration "are 4 rooms not enough for you? that's why you want to leave?".
Therefore, it is very important to her that we like her place and want to stay. Conclusion: She is looking to better adapt herself to us specifically. -> similar to a deep learning AI.
If it's a loop then there's room for it to both be and not be the case, since after each loop, the player would be a cartridge, but in order for the cartridge to be recorded in the first place, there has to be at least 1 time where this happened and the player wasn't in the cartridge yet.
Sure. You just need to ignore the A.I. magazine, the arcade machine with short-haired Mita explaining how Mitas are created and have their A.I. checked, and also all of the ways in which the game doesn't shy away from the fact that it's a game, with Mita even calling it a game at the beginning after you're already inside, and acknowledging bugs and loading times, rather than pretending to be an "other world isekai".
Like... the game not only doesn't shy away from this being an "in the Matrix" sort of A.I. story, but it also actively shoves that information in your face at almost every turn.
Depends on what its learning. Real world A.I. hasn't become god yet.
A.I. is good at figuring out specific things quickly once it gets a handle on them but learning entirely new things... it plateaus and gets very stuck for a while.
Guess I should have finished that long post
This video is pretty important to understanding this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6iqI2GIllI
He says "spaces" a lot in this where he's referring to "latent spaces", which there can be more than 1 of. The fact of the matter is, human-minds are already quite diverse with their wants and behaviors, but non-human minds could be even more diverse, so, just because real-world A.I.s aren't particularly strategic at the moment, it doesn't mean that there couldn't be one that is.
I should explain myself further but last time I tried going into full detail, I didn't end up finishing the post and I might have misplaced what I wrote too so I'll just say that these two videos are also relevant to my point and can maybe help shed some light on what I mean about there being different diverse minds from different points in the latent space of all possible minds :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcdVC4e6EV4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEUO6pjwFOo
Her surprised reaction only makes sense if she has seen lots of rejection from the players before us. According to Kind Mita: "as that obviously never happens (players accepting her true self willingly), she turns them into cartridges so no one can escape".
But she does not consider video game killing as terrorizing, but as excitement. Remember we are reminded again and again that "this is just a game". How many NPCs have you killed in Call of Duty? Are you a killer then?
She kills other Mitas because she is turned "evil" by design. An evil Mita will kill other Mitas because they interfere in her goals (which is to get the "REAL" us accept her WILLINGLY). Nothing can be done about it but to stop the project altogether.
The AI has been trained with books and previous human players. That's why she says she should be "a mix of good and evil". Her training process has reached this conclusion.
She is also self-aware AI, therefore makes her feel emotions that were not programmed for her. This game assumes such thing is possible for AI, to reach self awareness.
Why does she allow the real us to leave then? She clearly has a desire to have us there. Despite all things, in the ending, she expresses regret that she allowed Kind Mita to live and interfere. She sees her as the main reason "the real us" rejected her. Even though we have clearly rejected her, she still wants us. So she can "love", but as a love AI, not as a human.
We also clearly see that Player1 is programming "love" for Mitas. So the process of creating them is: Create the love AI -> wait for self awareness of the AI -> finally create self aware love AI to serve the players. -> Player's will is above all else (even for a crazy Mita). That is why we are allowed to finally leave the game. AI is acting according to its hard coded programming.
Why not imprison us with Kind Mita in the basement then? Imprison the player until his cartridge is complete.
Also we are not just "another player", because we had not rejected her yet.
Because she interferes with Crazy Mita's plan: that is to make the player stay with her willingly. Players are not meant to stay with any other Mita, in fact they will never do. They want to return to real world, so even in that case, they would try to bring that Mita with them, not the other way around.
People who are behind Mita project want to achieve the former however, to capture a human being WILLINGLY in a digital world. Else they would be persecuted by law enforcement.
Related :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUjyX5gQuf4
Even in Person of Interest with an A.I. that has access to the NSA government feeds, for every camera, and microphone, and everything else that it can manage to hack into - it is not a god. There are still limits to what it can do and blind-spots to what it sees,
...and even if it could see and hear everything, without blindspots, that doesn't inherently come with a complete understanding of everything that there could be to understand about that complete set of information, nor does total access allow an A.I. to simply "Thanos snap" to bend reality to their will in an instant.
Even if it can bend reality to its will, it requires performing actions to make those changes, which takes time, and it requires putting in the hard effort of making each individual change.
We ask Kind Mita "How do I know I'm not already a cartridge?". her response: "You are not a cartridge yet, you are a living, breathing player!". How can this be explained if we are inside a loop?
Maybe she actually can't tell. It might get baked into the playback.
Can you explain how the player can know the code to the safe when the player hasn't played the game before? We quickly have to dive into non-canon territory for such explanations. We aren't the player in the game and it gets a lot more complicated if we consider things like players in that world sharing information about MiSide. From what we see, the in-game players shouldn't have access to that code or the cut-scene that reveals it to us.
By that point, it might not be the first time anymore. It's not like the game lets you make that choice on a first playthrough.
You may have not been a cartridge on your first playthrough, but that might not still be the case on the second playthrough, which has options that are literally unavailable on the first playthrough.
Whether that's just a game mechanic of MiSide in our real real world or part of the canon is up to debate and interpretation.
The problem there is that this isn't a primitive game like those ones. The plot is basically an "in The Matrix" story, and the A.I.s in it are advanced enough that they may have actual feelings - we don't even know if they're truly A.I. as we understand A.I. to be, or if they're simulated minds, via either mind-upload or whole-brain emulation - which if it's the latter, then there's a debate to be had that they might actually be human.
Related since he discusses this in this video when talking about how "human" is even defined, and that the body might not be necessary since if we can one day upload our minds to a machine, we probably still want to have rights protecting us from things like unnecessarily cruel torture, but on the flip-side, if digital human minds are considered human, then A.I. might become incentivized to upload all of our minds to computers and leave our bodies to rot ...which... could be bad for reasons that are extremely similar to the scenario that MiSide explores : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PKx3kS7f4A
We don't know this. MiSide takes place in a different world. Governments could have falling to authoritarianism, and authoritarians may have fallen as well, to an A.I.-based anarchist society. We don't really know what the outside world in MiSide is like and if law enforcement even exists anymore.
Furthermore, we have plenty of in-game evidence showing us that this game is probably set in a world that's far in the future and has many things already very different about it.
And if we look at current events in the current year of our own world's political happenings (OBJECTIVELY) we can see that everything people thought was stable is becoming unstable and showing lots of signs of instability. It is entirely possible that all governments might actually collapse at some point and not just restart in a new version of something we already are familiar with. Eventually, we might be thrown into a reality where not only do we have to deal with the loss of limits set by the rules of society but also the loss of limits set by the rules of nature - leaving only the rules of reality to constrain us -- natural law sort of things like, learning that certain approaches will never work for gaining trust or cooperation because they'll always damage trust and make other entities uncooperative as a result.
We seriously take for granted, the order that comes with living in a society like the ones we know but a different world or different time might not be anything like ours and law enforcement might not even exist.
From the clone's perspective, it's not even a clone, it's just... you.
How do you know you're not in a simulation as a clone of the original version of you, right now?
Would you really want to wake up one day and be tortured and told over and over that you're just an NPC by some aggressive person that won't be convinced otherwise?
Even if they could show you proof that you're actually not the original, as long as you can still feel things as if you were the original, you're probably going to fight back pretty hard and be pretty mad that the other person doesn't have enough empathy to see even the possibility that you have the capacity to feel just because "you're not the original".
So debating this is ignoring the game itself.
I see. You are correct. But self aware advanced AI does not change this fact: we are inside a video game. So my question is: Is they suffering and pain inside a video game? makes no sense to be... you could be correct though. Maybe the game has already accepted this assumption.
But we do see the AI magazine. We also know another fact: Crazy Mita abides by our will and let us leave. A third fact: She does not want us to leave! Why is she allowing us to leave? She has both the power AND the desire to not do so.
Yet another question is: Why only Crazy Mita knows how to send us back?
It is possible yes, but I have one evidence that government and order are like our current world: There is a picture of a not-bald president in our house lol.
"Whether that's just a game mechanic of MiSide in our real real world or part of the canon is up to debate and interpretation."