No speedrun achievements

[Cú/Moon]

awwwww

[Teratus]

Good lol
Bad enough they still have some annoying time based achievements.

All the time based achievements were the worst and most frustrating achievements in the original collection, and so far it's been the same in this collection too.


Imo anything speedrun related is always a blemish on achievements.
Either it's too forgiving that it's not that hard to do anyway which kinda defies the point of the achievement (kinda like the 5-6 hours achievements in the last remastered collection)

Or they're so tight that you have to be a good speedrunner to actually beat them which locks the vast majority of people out of them and screws them out of being able to 100% a game they otherwise like and can overwhelmingly complete.

Nothing worse than spending tens if not hundreds of hours completing a game only to get screwed over by 1-2 achievements that require you to do something utterly obnoxious and infuriating like speedrunning, or obtain this obscene score in this stupid game mode or minigame that is completely unrelated to the main game and that nobody actually wants to play nor enjoys playing in the first place.

I hate that stuff lol

[Cú/Moon]

Originally posted by Teratus:

Good lol
Bad enough they still have some annoying time based achievements.
I hate that stuff lol

Or..... they're actually really fun because the OG Tomb raiders are fun to speedrun in comparison to 99% of other games.

[Teratus]

Fun for speed runners, not denying that.

But it's not the rest of us who happen to make up the majority of the gaming community.
Speedrunning is still a very niche part of gaming, a very active one yes but still very small.

It's also rampant with frauds and cheaters too which unfortunately hold it back quite a bit.

[Lanzagranadas]

TRI-III didn't have speedrun achievements.

There's a huge difference between a speedrun and just using your time efficiently.
Classic TR speedruns require insane and hyper risky stunts, many of which will instant kill you in case of failure.

Speedruns for those games take below 2 hours (and that's for the glitchless category). The 5-6 hours requirement for the "Only play for sports" achievements allow a much safer playstyle that doesn't force players to take huge risks or pull nearly impossible jumps. As long as you've memorized the game route, avoid unnecessary detours and skip Secrets you can play at a moderate speed and still get those achievements.

And the biggest factor: you can save and reload all you want. The most frustrating part of speedruns is that players normally don't save (because it costs additional time) so dying means restarting all over again from the beginning.

[chakkman]

There are people who do speedruns... and then there are people who actually enjoy the games.

[MrCalazans]

Thank god they didn't do it this time around! By the way, is there any collectible achievement as well? Those are tiring! I mean, I know there are achievements for finding all secrets, but what about all collectibles?

It seems the achievements are glitched. I did the The Path of The Heretical speedrun under 01m40s and it didn't pop up. You are supposed to beat The Path of The Heretical under 01m55s

[FhqwhTODD]

Originally posted by Cú/Moon:

Or..... they're actually really fun

Nah. They aren't.

Originally posted by MrCalazans:

I did the The Path of The Heretical speedrun under 01m40s and it didn't pop up.

Worked for me. But I cheated and did it at 1 second. Are you sure you did the correct level? There are 2 levels and you unlock the right one by finding all achievements in the first level. Which you only did after completing the chapter according to your achievements.

[MrCalazans]

Originally posted by Fhqwhgod:

Originally posted by Cú/Moon:

Or..... they're actually really fun

Nah. They aren't.

Originally posted by MrCalazans:

I did the The Path of The Heretical speedrun under 01m40s and it didn't pop up.

Worked for me. But I cheated and did it at 1 second. Are you sure you did the correct level? There are 2 levels and you unlock the right one by finding all achievements in the first level. Which you only did after completing the chapter according to your achievements.

I did the Herectic Path by shrugging it off all secrets.

[Powellinho.72]

Originally posted by Teratus:

Good lol
Bad enough they still have some annoying time based achievements.

All the time based achievements were the worst and most frustrating achievements in the original collection, and so far it's been the same in this collection too.


Imo anything speedrun related is always a blemish on achievements.
Either it's too forgiving that it's not that hard to do anyway which kinda defies the point of the achievement (kinda like the 5-6 hours achievements in the last remastered collection)

Or they're so tight that you have to be a good speedrunner to actually beat them which locks the vast majority of people out of them and screws them out of being able to 100% a game they otherwise like and can overwhelmingly complete.

Nothing worse than spending tens if not hundreds of hours completing a game only to get screwed over by 1-2 achievements that require you to do something utterly obnoxious and infuriating like speedrunning, or obtain this obscene score in this stupid game mode or minigame that is completely unrelated to the main game and that nobody actually wants to play nor enjoys playing in the first place.

I hate that stuff lol

I think your whole look on achievements is the problem here, your complaining about a bonus feature,that is literally just picture pop ups with some text. If you cant achieve 100 percent, your saying it screws you over.....

See what achievements has done to you, its in complete control of you. When the fun stops, you stop. Thats how it used to be anyway.

[Tastymond]

lol

[Teratus]

Originally posted by Powellinho.72:

I think your whole look on achievements is the problem here, your complaining about a bonus feature,that is literally just picture pop ups with some text. If you cant achieve 100 percent, your saying it screws you over.....

See what achievements has done to you, its in complete control of you. When the fun stops, you stop. Thats how it used to be anyway.

They add an extra layer of fun to games in most cases, no different to any completionist element that has existed in games since the earlier years such as 100% statistics, collecting every single item/collectable in the game such as Super Mario 64 Stars, unlocking every level & secret or just simply beating the game on every difficulty etc etc

Hardcore gamer's have always enjoyed completing games even before achievements came along to act as a sort of public record of completion which only made it more enjoyable.

So yea it does annoy people if these records are influenced by other factors like speedrunning which have nothing to do with actually completing the game's content and everything to do with ignoring it as much as possible to get to the credits as fast as possible.

Yes, to someone who cares about and enjoys actually completing their games and getting their money's worth out of them, being unable to without engaging with this kind of playstyle does "screw" them over in a sense.

You argue achievements ruin the gaming experience because they become an obsession for some, but you overlook that with or without them gamer's have always engaged with achievement hunting behaviour and that has always been a significant contributor to game's "fun" for a lot of people.

I could take your argument one step further and apply it to leaderboards, E-sports and basically all competitive elements of gaming and accuse them of being utterly irrelevant and make the argument that they shouldn't exist on those grounds.
Considering your Profile picture is that of Age of Empire's.. (Great game btw) i'm pretty sure you wouldn't agree with that at all.

Why play anything in multiplayer when there's no progress, no point, where beating anyone is irrelevant, where getting better at the game is irrelevant, where the only record is to be a smaller number on a leaderboard, most of which is filled with cheaters anyway..

Answer is the same, because that's fun to you.

[Powellinho.72]

Originally posted by Teratus:

Originally posted by Powellinho.72:

I think your whole look on achievements is the problem here, your complaining about a bonus feature,that is literally just picture pop ups with some text. If you cant achieve 100 percent, your saying it screws you over.....

See what achievements has done to you, its in complete control of you. When the fun stops, you stop. Thats how it used to be anyway.

They add an extra layer of fun to games in most cases, no different to any completionist element that has existed in games since the earlier years such as 100% statistics, collecting every single item/collectable in the game such as Super Mario 64 Stars, unlocking every level & secret or just simply beating the game on every difficulty etc etc

Hardcore gamer's have always enjoyed completing games even before achievements came along to act as a sort of public record of completion which only made it more enjoyable.

So yea it does annoy people if these records are influenced by other factors like speedrunning which have nothing to do with actually completing the game's content and everything to do with ignoring it as much as possible to get to the credits as fast as possible.

Yes, to someone who cares about and enjoys actually completing their games and getting their money's worth out of them, being unable to without engaging with this kind of playstyle does "screw" them over in a sense.

You argue achievements ruin the gaming experience because they become an obsession for some, but you overlook that with or without them gamer's have always engaged with achievement hunting behaviour and that has always been a significant contributor to game's "fun" for a lot of people.

I could take your argument one step further and apply it to leaderboards, E-sports and basically all competitive elements of gaming and accuse them of being utterly irrelevant and make the argument that they shouldn't exist on those grounds.
Considering your Profile picture is that of Age of Empire's.. (Great game btw) i'm pretty sure you wouldn't agree with that at all.

Why play anything in multiplayer when there's no progress, no point, where beating anyone is irrelevant, where getting better at the game is irrelevant, where the only record is to be a smaller number on a leaderboard, most of which is filled with cheaters anyway..

Answer is the same, because that's fun to you.

"Hardcore gamer's have always enjoyed completing games even before achievements came along to act as a sort of public record of completion which only made it more enjoyable."

"Yes, to someone who cares about and enjoys actually completing their games and getting their money's worth out of them, being unable to without engaging with this kind of playstyle does "screw" them over in a sense."

How? You just admitted people enjoyed completing games without them before, you can continue to complete games and not worry about them, but here you are complaining its ruining your experience. Your moaning you have to change your playstyle for them, you dont have to change your playstyle, just play the game how you want, if the achievements are not fun or want you to do something unfun, then dont do it.......

"You argue achievements ruin the gaming experience because they become an obsession for some, but you overlook that with or without them gamer's have always engaged with achievement hunting behaviour and that has always been a significant contributor to game's "fun" for a lot of people."

No you just was saying the 1 or 2 annoying achievements was screwing you over, im saying to you, dont let it control you, just move on and play something else your having more fun in, or just go back to playing the game how you want. Your not being screwed over, the point of the game isnt the achievements lol.

"I could take your argument one step further and apply it to leaderboards, E-sports and basically all competitive elements of gaming and accuse them of being utterly irrelevant and make the argument that they shouldn't exist on those grounds."

Well no, because competitive gaming existed before cheevos, and cheevos for the most part are not even a challenge, its all stuff like kill 10 people with XYZ weapon, beat level 1 and so on. And you can just simply cheat the cheevos and leaderboards on here, in an e-sports tornament, its not allowed to cheat obviously and its going to be something more meaningful like the best players playing against eachother in their chosen games.

Also they get paid for it.

[Elvick]

I'm bummed at how few there are compared to the original trilogy collection. I like the broad range of misc. achievements that they had.

[Teratus]

Originally posted by Powellinho.72:

How? You just admitted people enjoyed completing games without them before, you can continue to complete games and not worry about them, but here you are complaining its ruining your experience. Your moaning you have to change your playstyle for them, you dont have to change your playstyle, just play the game how you want, if the achievements are not fun or want you to do something unfun, then dont do it.......

Guess you missed this part, I answered that already.

"So yea it does annoy people if these records are influenced by other factors like speedrunning which have nothing to do with actually completing the game's content and everything to do with ignoring it as much as possible to get to the credits as fast as possible."

Speedrunning is almost always opposed to completionism.
Achievement hunting is an extension of completionism and by it's very nature appeals to completionist mindsets.. ergo the persuit for the platinum/100% goal.

Completing the achievements has become directly tied to the 100% completion of a game as a result.
That's why it's annoying to completionists when bad or out of place achievements exist in their games.

No you just was saying the 1 or 2 annoying achievements was screwing you over, im saying to you, dont let it control you, just move on and play something else your having more fun in, or just go back to playing the game how you want. Your not being screwed over, the point of the game isnt the achievements lol.

Screwing you out of a completion specifically which is true, they are and for no good reason.

You're arguing for fun here but also disregarding what other people find fun.
If it wasn't fun for us we wouldn't do it in the first place.

Surely you've encountered plenty of things in the games you like that annoy you, a cheap enemy type, a game breaking exploit that gives another player a huge advantage and almost a guaranateed win.. a game breaking bug that forces you to start over..

I don't believe you're a complete stranger to some bull**** in games that actively spoils how fun the game is for you.
Just imagine that becoming so normal that you're forced to embrace it just to remain competitive and you can no longer play the game reliably without doing so.

Probably a good and still controversial example of that is Mario Kart and how the online is rampant with people hop drifting to break the game's physics and obtain unnaturally high speeds.
If you want to play the game normally online you basically can't.. a single player in your race using this tactic will win every time and there's nothing you or anyone else in the race can do about it.
A single player can single handedly screw everyone else over and ruin their fun.

So they're left with two options.. learn how to play the game unnaturally which isn't fun to them, or quit playing the game online entirely..
I say there's a third option, those who actually care about and want to enjoy the game the way they find fun, have every right to be annoyed and complain about this problem ruining their experiences.

Well no, because competitive gaming existed before cheevos, and cheevos for the most part are not even a challenge, its all stuff like kill 10 people with XYZ weapon, beat level 1 and so on. And you can just simply cheat the cheevos and leaderboards on here, in an e-sports tornament, its not allowed to cheat obviously and its going to be something more meaningful like the best players playing against eachother in their chosen games.

So did completionist mentalities, as I said those contributed heavily to the whole achievement thing in the first place.

I won't defend bad or lazy achievements though, there's plenty of them around and I am no fan of achievement spam games either which only exist to bloat gamerscores.

Not all games are like that though and games that encourage true completionism through their achievements are doing things right.

In Tomb Raiders case, finding all the secrets, beating challenges like beating bosses with your weakest weapon without taking damage, encouraging you to explore everything the game has.. these are good achievements that promote the very gameplay these games champion.

Speedbased achievements don't qualify in that.
And a good example of this annoyance is Shadows of the Tomb Raider, I had that 100% years ago, invested plenty of hours into the game, beating all it's difficulties, collecting all it's collectables satisfying the completionist in me.
Then CD went and added several DLC's to it that were all garbage time trail BS.
If I want that 100% back, in a game I already have fully "completed" I now have to complete all of that awful DLC content..

It's been years and i've not done it, purely on the grounds that I hate the DLC's.
So yeah, I feel justified in saying that I got screwed out of a 100% that I earned, because I did.
And no I don't think just "cheating" the DLC achievements is a good solution either, I don't like cheaters in games and I refuse to be one of them.

It's not allowed to cheat in any online environment but people do it anyway and for the most part companies don't actually seem to care or do anything about it.
Make me wonder why they even bother with things like competitive boards and stuff if they're just going to let the top spots be filled with cheaters anyway.

Seems like a big waste of developers time to implement something so irrelevant.

[Powellinho.72]

Originally posted by Teratus:

Originally posted by Powellinho.72:

How? You just admitted people enjoyed completing games without them before, you can continue to complete games and not worry about them, but here you are complaining its ruining your experience. Your moaning you have to change your playstyle for them, you dont have to change your playstyle, just play the game how you want, if the achievements are not fun or want you to do something unfun, then dont do it.......

Guess you missed this part, I answered that already.

"So yea it does annoy people if these records are influenced by other factors like speedrunning which have nothing to do with actually completing the game's content and everything to do with ignoring it as much as possible to get to the credits as fast as possible."

Speedrunning is almost always opposed to completionism.
Achievement hunting is an extension of completionism and by it's very nature appeals to completionist mindsets.. ergo the persuit for the platinum/100% goal.

Completing the achievements has become directly tied to the 100% completion of a game as a result.
That's why it's annoying to completionists when bad or out of place achievements exist in their games.

No you just was saying the 1 or 2 annoying achievements was screwing you over, im saying to you, dont let it control you, just move on and play something else your having more fun in, or just go back to playing the game how you want. Your not being screwed over, the point of the game isnt the achievements lol.

Screwing you out of a completion specifically which is true, they are and for no good reason.

You're arguing for fun here but also disregarding what other people find fun.
If it wasn't fun for us we wouldn't do it in the first place.

Surely you've encountered plenty of things in the games you like that annoy you, a cheap enemy type, a game breaking exploit that gives another player a huge advantage and almost a guaranateed win.. a game breaking bug that forces you to start over..

I don't believe you're a complete stranger to some bull**** in games that actively spoils how fun the game is for you.
Just imagine that becoming so normal that you're forced to embrace it just to remain competitive and you can no longer play the game reliably without doing so.

Probably a good and still controversial example of that is Mario Kart and how the online is rampant with people hop drifting to break the game's physics and obtain unnaturally high speeds.
If you want to play the game normally online you basically can't.. a single player in your race using this tactic will win every time and there's nothing you or anyone else in the race can do about it.
A single player can single handedly screw everyone else over and ruin their fun.

So they're left with two options.. learn how to play the game unnaturally which isn't fun to them, or quit playing the game online entirely..
I say there's a third option, those who actually care about and want to enjoy the game the way they find fun, have every right to be annoyed and complain about this problem ruining their experiences.

Well no, because competitive gaming existed before cheevos, and cheevos for the most part are not even a challenge, its all stuff like kill 10 people with XYZ weapon, beat level 1 and so on. And you can just simply cheat the cheevos and leaderboards on here, in an e-sports tornament, its not allowed to cheat obviously and its going to be something more meaningful like the best players playing against eachother in their chosen games.

So did completionist mentalities, as I said those contributed heavily to the whole achievement thing in the first place.

I won't defend bad or lazy achievements though, there's plenty of them around and I am no fan of achievement spam games either which only exist to bloat gamerscores.

Not all games are like that though and games that encourage true completionism through their achievements are doing things right.

In Tomb Raiders case, finding all the secrets, beating challenges like beating bosses with your weakest weapon without taking damage, encouraging you to explore everything the game has.. these are good achievements that promote the very gameplay these games champion.

Speedbased achievements don't qualify in that.
And a good example of this annoyance is Shadows of the Tomb Raider, I had that 100% years ago, invested plenty of hours into the game, beating all it's difficulties, collecting all it's collectables satisfying the completionist in me.
Then CD went and added several DLC's to it that were all garbage time trail BS.
If I want that 100% back, in a game I already have fully "completed" I now have to complete all of that awful DLC content..

It's been years and i've not done it, purely on the grounds that I hate the DLC's.
So yeah, I feel justified in saying that I got screwed out of a 100% that I earned, because I did.
And no I don't think just "cheating" the DLC achievements is a good solution either, I don't like cheaters in games and I refuse to be one of them.

It's not allowed to cheat in any online environment but people do it anyway and for the most part companies don't actually seem to care or do anything about it.
Make me wonder why they even bother with things like competitive boards and stuff if they're just going to let the top spots be filled with cheaters anyway.

Seems like a big waste of developers time to implement something so irrelevant.

"Completing the achievements has become directly tied to the 100% completion of a game as a result.
That's why it's annoying to completionists when bad or out of place achievements exist in their games."

"Screwing you out of a completion specifically which is true, they are and for no good reason.

You're arguing for fun here but also disregarding what other people find fun.
If it wasn't fun for us we wouldn't do it in the first place."

It may annoy you, but going down the lengths of " its screwed me over" is being a tad dramatic. Most people do not take cheevos that seriously.....

The point being made isnt that it cant be fun, its that it shouldnt be " it ruined it all for me" As you admitted people played and completed games just fine before. Now all the sudden its a big deal about picture pop ups. Its a bonus feature, me killing 10 people with this type of handgun doesn't mean you didn't complete the game.

"And no I don't think just "cheating" the DLC achievements is a good solution either, I don't like cheaters in games and I refuse to be one of them."

LMAO, and you think people care what you think? They can do whateever they want in their SP games, thats another reason why people do not take them seriously, but you trying to explain that its the same equal as an E sports torny is laughable. Some achievements even ask/require you to use a cheat code in some games lol. Duke nukem megaton edition as an example.

But hey if you want to let achievements work you up this bad and put you in a bad mood, then okay carry on.