Fight sequence

[Ginopinoshow]

I am not sure I understand the fight sequence: when I add two units of different type, is the second unit transformed into the first type?

Also I have a question about the math when there is advantage/disadvantage:

why 5 axes vs 6 arrows = 2 arrows?

If arrows have a vantage, they count as +50%, so shouldn't it be =4 arrows?

or why 15 axes vs 7 swords = 10 axes?

[Daremo]

From what I can tell, the unit wuth least amount becomes the one with the most.
Doesn't matter if you send one or another first.

But you can for exemple reduce your biggest by fighting, then going to your second, unused unit and transform into them if they are now bigger to use their type instead.

Example :

30 sword fight and lose 10, now 20.
You have 25 arrows, so now you direct the sword to the arrow, they become 45 arrows cause sword dropped below 25, then you go attack something else.

For the maths, I don't have an answer. There might be some bugs or other details we missed.

[Ginopinoshow]

Originally posted by Daremo:

From what I can tell, the unit wuth least amount becomes the one with the most.
Doesn't matter if you send one or another first.

But you can for exemple reduce your biggest by fighting, then going to your second, unused unit and transform into them if they are now bigger to use their type instead.

Example :

30 sword fight and lose 10, now 20.
You have 25 arrows, so now you direct the sword to the arrow, they become 45 arrows cause sword dropped below 25, then you go attack something else.

For the maths, I don't have an answer. There might be some bugs or other details we missed.

Thank you, I will keep an eye to the log and see if I can confirm it! It would make sense
So far every time I was adding my armies, the second would be converted to the first, but I didn't look at the numbers.

Now I just did a battle where I added 5 enemy axes with 5 enemy arrows, obtaining 10 enemy arrows

[Sleepy Mill Studio]

Hello! Indeed the biggest group keeps the type, however if there are two equal groups, the result is the same type as the destination.

About the formula: 6 arrows vs 5 axes -> 1 arrow can eliminate 1,5 axe due to their advantage, so you need 4 arrows to eliminate all 5 (3 isn’t enough). This is how the maths work here.

Hope that helps, have fun !

[Daremo]

The 50% advantage might need to be explained differently ?
The first thing you'd think (?) Is to add 50% to the total like the topic creator (and I, while playing) did.

Both ways to look at feel logical and I'm still breaking my (just morning awoken) brain on why it's different to x1.5 the 6 up to 9 versus counting each unit as a 1.5 instead of 1. I get it but it's still too much thinking ha ha.

Yeah we don't have the 9 units so it makes sense to not deduct from 9 but still. 🤔

[Sleepy Mill Studio]

Yeah I agree that it's not the easiest concept to grasp, I tried a bunch of explanatory texts and this one seemed to be the best... although you have to play to truly understand it and that's always been my intention (play and learn along the way).

Purely buffing the group would create inconsistencies, because:
- If 6 bows vs 4 axes is the equivalent of 9 vs 4, then you'd end up with 5 units. Therefore you only use 1 bow to eliminate 4 axes.
- But then, with the same maths, 8 bows vs 4 axes, is the equivalent of 12 vs 4, so you don't lose any bow to eliminate units
- And then, if you have 10 bows vs 4 axes, it's like 15 vs 4, so you end up wwith 11 bows, meaning you gained an extra one??

With the system "1 bow eliminates 1.5 axe", you alwyas lose the same amount of bows to clear those 4 axes.

(and if you want the alternative explanation: if you "consider" a group as x1.5, you need to divide the outcome by 1.5 too)

[Ginopinoshow]

Originally posted by Sleepy Mill Studio:

Yeah I agree that it's not the easiest concept to grasp, I tried a bunch of explanatory texts and this one seemed to be the best... although you have to play to truly understand it and that's always been my intention (play and learn along the way).

Purely buffing the group would create inconsistencies, because:
- If 6 bows vs 4 axes is the equivalent of 9 vs 4, then you'd end up with 5 units. Therefore you only use 1 bow to eliminate 4 axes.
- But then, with the same maths, 8 bows vs 4 axes, is the equivalent of 12 vs 4, so you don't lose any bow to eliminate units
- And then, if you have 10 bows vs 4 axes, it's like 15 vs 4, so you end up wwith 11 bows, meaning you gained an extra one??

With the system "1 bow eliminates 1.5 axe", you alwyas lose the same amount of bows to clear those 4 axes.

(and if you want the alternative explanation: if you "consider" a group as x1.5, you need to divide the outcome by 1.5 too)

Thank you for the explanation!

I feel that the game would benefit from a longer explanation, but at the same time, I have no clue how to improve it: everything you said makes perfect sense.

Maybe adding a few examples in the tutorial text would be enough?

I am in favor of "play and learn", but I feel that in this case it may be a bit complicated to learn these concepts out of experience alone.
For example, the fact that when armies are the same number they are transformed in the second one is a concept that may play a key role, especially against a boss. But at the same time, it's a case that does not happen often, so the chances to learn it are quite scarce.

[Sleepy Mill Studio]

Ok, thanks for the suggestion! I may have an idea: adding a big tables that shows how the output of X units vs X units, what do you think? As for the merge rules, I'll add a graphics as well.

[Daremo]

What about a simple damage prediction that would go for the any 1vs1 you try connect at first ? Maybe it could have a tootip that also explains whatever else you need to add if needed, during battle.

[Sleepy Mill Studio]

Originally posted by Daremo:

What about a simple damage prediction that would go for the any 1vs1 you try connect at first ? Maybe it could have a tootip that also explains whatever else you need to add if needed, during battle.

We did try that, but it was even more confusing, because a certain arrow can show there's an advantage if it's the first, but if it comes after some battles, maybe it's no longer an advantage because the group that will actually attack will be different than the one currently there. Thanks for the suggestions anyway, we'll try to improve this part