Synergy

[Quickhand69er]

I was convenced that this was NOT the way to go but I did it anyway to test it. After about 10 cores im my ship I felt underpowered.

I then said heck with synergy and made it longer and added more weapons. It is so much more powerfull then less weapons thats just a little stronger.

Even my nephew that stoped by and asked why I have my ship like that. I told him about the synergy buffs and how I was testing that out. But even he figured more weapons the better...and he is right.

This is 100% guaranteed the more weapons the better and challange anyone who thinks different to test it on there own.

Think you made a great ship with synergy? Try making it longer and adding more weapons and see if you are more powerfull. If nothing else your threat will increase.

[Bozobub]

Until you try to maneuver your ship, your approach works just fine. I guarantee, however, that I will fly circles around you in most of my builds. Threat ratings are also mostly a guide; it doesn't including overall agility, for example. In other words, I think you are confusing the concepts of "strong" and "effective", if that makes sense =).

Synergy is not meant to be "better" than "stick" builds. It's just different, trading some power for a *lot* of agility (speed and turn rate). If you like playing a turtle, fine, and it certainly can work, but yer gonna NEED them shields, bucko ^^'. My ships are literally faster than everything except Sniper Cannon fire — yes, SCs too — while also having excellent stats. I only take enemy fire when I allow it to happen; trust me, that's extremely useful (and fun, to boot).

Synergy is also useful to construct rather strong ships cheaply in the early-to-midgame. You simply have fewer modules to purchase and optimize. Later on in the endgame, especially if you've extended it some way, such as the rebounding Zombie horde, very high-quality components certainly can potentially push stick builds' performance past that of various synergy builds, but that takes a long, LONG time.

Here's a couple of effective 21-core "partial synergy" builds; each flies like a fighter, kicks like a mule, AND rams well (one of the most fun things in the game) =D. Stats are in the upper-right corner, click to enlarge:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1209567449
(Loadout in the description.)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1218156986
(By turret: 4x Sniper, 3x Plasma, 2x Zapper Hangar, 3x Zapper Pod, 2x Flak; that center Plasma has a 120% damage bonus and 50% faster cycle rate from synergy, as an example =) )

TL;dr? Ship construction isn't quite as simple as you may think, and neither is synergy, especially when playing on harder difficulties/heavily slider-modded Sandbox games. As a player from long before the release, trust me on this.

[Quickhand69er]

Your agility or maneuvering is from the engines. I can take all those cores and make a long line. Nothing but engines and front ends with 2 1 slot sides. Much much faster then this. In the last screenshot there are atlest 12 cores you can change to have 24 more slots for weapons. thats 12 more slots on each side or front and back. Yes 24 more slots for weapons. This 120% Can not beat 24 more spots for railguns or whatever you like. Can clearly see this just from the dps alone. Just think, thats 7 rail guns extra that you do not have.

Just for the hell of it. Please change the build to a stick build and then come tell me im wrong. I dont care if its all engines or sides because its almost all the same exept for your speed.

Synergy was suppost to be as equaly effective as the stick builds so people stop building stick builds. But I personaly, in my opinion, think it is not as effective.

[Quickhand69er]

Sorry I been drinking, that would be 8 3 slot railguns, not 7. Thats a ton more dps.

[Bozobub]

And your uber-fast ship will turn like a brick (no real wings to speak of plus huge physics penalty on the very wide build plus huge mass) ^^'. You are also ignoring synergy bonuses to both damage and weapon recycle, I'll note, which range from 85% to 120% for damage (IIRC, may be 110%) and from 35% to 50% to weapon recycle on my builds; your DPS calculations are way off.

You're not going to be telling me anything new here, I promise you. You might want to check out the Ship Design sticky, many of the designs there are mine.

[Quickhand69er]

If you cant see how 8 more railguns can do more damage then I litterly dont know what to tell you. I have always went with a stick build because it is the best. I tried synergy for over half of a campain and it was rough.

Also there is litterly no way in hell that ship can fly circles around me even if I dont use any weapons. The circle you think you are doing is just me keeping you on the side I want you on.

Untill you reconfigure that ship and acually test it, its very hard to belive any of this as you are 100% one sided without any notion of trying my way to test the differance as I did.

[Loomi]

Such a shame the multiplayer didn't make it. :)

On harder modes (turning) speed is everything.
While a non synergy build will probably outdps a synergybuild, it will get blown out of the water (vacuum?) as soon as some real threatening enemies appear. Being able to keep distance from overwhelming odds is much more important than doing twice the dps.

Offcourse all of this becomes moot at some point in a campaign, but as long as you are fighting equally powerful enemies: speed beats firepower.

Also, 8 railguns? What would 8 railguns be able to do that 1 railgun couldn't? As soon as shields are dropped and railguns start to hit, stuff is going to die either way. In my experience it's the shield removing part which could get nasty, when shields are gone it's mostly "cleaning up".

[Bozobub]

Yes; in Spaz, agility is king.

In fact, agility also makes battles MUCH faster overall, especially on harder difficulties, because you can outmaneuver the enemy SC swarm and kill the motherships without popping every SC 1st (so they cannot spawn SC reinforcements). On "Expert" and "Insane" this can halve combat time, or even better.

Also I certainly have tried 21 cores in a straight line (as well as lower numbers). It's utterly worthless and quite unflyable, to be frank; your quibble has little to do with reality. You'd get far more out of an "inverted U" build, such as this (rather old) 15-core ship, or an "L" variant.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=847305333
(By turret: 4x Sniper, 3x Plasma, 4x Flak, 2x Zapper Hangar, Attack Hangar, Zapper Pod. Attack Hangars were since deprecated to Defender drones; use another Zapper Hangar instead, if recreating).

Right back at'cha: Until you've actually tried the builds I've illustrated, especially on hard difficulties/difficult situations (such as a Zombie 3-on-one against you) you have little idea of what you're talking about. And you quite obviously have not ^^'.

Frankly, your ship would be hosed by any of my synergy builds, as I take down your shields and easily ram you (because you don't have overall agility, of course). Roughly half a million shields doesn't hurt either.

[Quickhand69er]

Well if you dont want 8 railguns to instantly kill anything then maybe a crap ton more bombers or fighters. 8 more 3 slot bombers that has what, 3 bombers in each? So like 24 more bombers/fighters.

I played 3 campains and 2 sandbox games. I like long range fighters and bombers with long range weapons like a rail gun. Especailly if its 3 on one I turn and run, manuly telling my drones to stay ahead of me so they dont get shot. My drones carry fighters. Drones are faster then there main ships so they get to me first...they die fast. If I need to I slow down and let one catch up I will at this point. Thanks to the fighters the enemy ship never has a shield when they get within my range. Once a ship closes into my range the front end is gone instantly in 1 volley, then the exposed cores is an easy kill with the secound volley. 2 shot kills is even funner then ramming to me. I think my last campain I had two 2 slot engines on a stick build with a 3 slot front because I also like ramming at times. I also out range bases and can just stay out of its range if I want.

Although I have already tested this out very well, I will still try one of your synergy builds just to make sure. Then change it to stick build and test it again. Show me your best one and i'll try my best to get the exact parts to mach your design.

Wish I could test my 2 shot kill ship with one of your synergy builds just to see if it also gets distroyed in 2 hits. I know npcs has synergy builds but im sure they are much weaker then yours.

[Quickhand69er]

Also I do like the U builds. They are very powerfull. But I also consider this a stick build as it does not try to use synergy buffs.

[Quickhand69er]

You both talk about speed. Do you have issues with speed on a stick build? I dont have any trouble with 2, 2 slot engines.

[Bozobub]

You are, quite simply, confused.

First off, my ships are faster than drones, under boost. Yes, really; load up all the drones you like =).

Second, I'm aware inverted-U builds are stick variants; I was specifically responding to your claim re: a straight stick build.

Third, Mass Drivers do NOTHING vs. shields. Your "2 hit kill" ship simply isn't as good as you think it is.

I've given you plenty of variants to try, and there's more in the Ship Design sticky. When you do those builds, start looking at the synergy bonuses you keep ignoring.

[Quickhand69er]

I never ignored the bonuses for synergy, just saying it sucks compared to just more. Also like I said you or any other ship that closes on me never has shields. To many fighters. Shields cant hold wile you are closeing in. This includes one full side of my ship with all drones having fighters. Also fighters takes no energy so I can boost shields till power is gone or your shields are gone if you are that fast. Then its a 2 shot.

I will test one though..again. But you should also try a fighter/mass driver stick build. If you can 1 shot an asteroid and have 24+ fighters you are ready.

To bad we cant test ships against each other even if there both AI controlled. Would be easier to test as tactics has alot to do with it also. Like maybe you always head straight for them wile I do not. Giving fighters time to take down shields. Even though it dont take long as there are alot of them.