Find the source codes of NG: Black and Ninja Gaiden 2 (2008) Koei and Team Ninja

[Destroyer]

Don't lie and find it. You don't wanted to port them in favor of awful Sigma versions

[hip]

Find it? lol. Who said they don't have it? Theyre lying

[KingyWingy]

It surprises me they made that statement when it is so obviously false. They have all the code and assets for sigma version but not the originals... <_< >_> which use the same code and assets.

[dprog1995]

Sigma doesn't use the same code since Sigma's graphic engine is not the same as Xbox 360 and and original Xbox versions.

[KingyWingy]

What gives you that idea?

The bulk of the game code would be the same. The renderer being different is not a problem.

[dprog1995]

Originally posted by KingyWingy:

What gives you that idea?

The bulk of the game code would be the same. The renderer being different is not a problem.

This article:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ninjagaiden2-faceoff-article

Also sigma 2 is as good/bad as the original NG 2. This post from the reddit summed up Sigma vs Original 2 well.

Sigma 2 takes a clear and good step forward, but for each step forward, it also takes one step back. Ninja Gaiden 2 was a mess of a game, frame-rate issues abound, crashes, soft locks and more, Sigma 2 has none of those (step forward), but to compensate has no blood and less enemies at the same time (step backwards), to compensate for this enemies take much more damage (step backwards), but fights allow or way more tactics and moves to be used now that the fights are smaller (step fowards). Sigma 2 had less chaotic battles (step backwards) but as a result also felt a bit more fair and you could actually no-damage the game without UT-spam (step forward). NG2 was rightfully hated for it's ranged combat emphasis which Sigma 2 scaled down (step forward), only to buff enemies up the waazo with nearly 5x hitpoints and instant kill attacks; instead of dying because of massive nukes from afar slowly, you die nearly instantly for one mistake (step backwards). The original had issues with farming essence for higher weapons, which Sigma 2 fixed (step foward) by making essence absolutely pointless (step backwards). It also added new weapons (step forward) while removing others (step backwards). It added costumes (step forward) but removed others (step backwards). It added online co-op for mission mode (step forward) but removed solo play from these missions (step backward). The co-op had a lot of missions added to them (step forward) but the later ones were insanely hard and were riddled with lag and framerate issues (backwards we go). It added a mission select (forward), but removed New Game Plus (backwards). Sigma 2 added other playable characters (forward) but you couldn't skip those chapters (backwards). Annoying bosses and areas were completely removed (step forwards) but the Tests of Valor were also removed (step back).

And I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. Sigma 2 was a more streamlined, functional game. It had co-op, fun costumes, stable framerate, more content and the combat was less messy and more elegant. NG2 was pure chaos, explosions everywhere, blood everywhere and each fight felt like a fight to survive, but sometimes when you died you felt it was more the game just playing tricks than you actually screwing up. Each had their plus and downsides.

[hip]

Ok what the ♥♥♥♥ is going on with this collection release? Someone on twitter just made a comparission between original Sigma and the screenshots for the collection release, and it turns out the texture quality in this collection is significantly WORSE than the textures of the original Sigma game:

RCPS3 (notice the samurai enemy textures):
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExYVwGrWYAQjN0E?format=jpg&name=large

Collection screenshot from Team Ninja's website:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExYX6ScXMAA73Y_?format=jpg&name=large


____________________________________________________

RCPS3:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExYXAN7XAAMVpr_?format=jpg&name=large

Collection (notice how blurry the textures on his sleeves are)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExYXJwDXMAEVy8R?format=jpg&name=large


Are these incompetent guys at Team Ninja seriously compromising texture quality because they can't pack 3 ancient games in one package? I can't believe Team Ninja would sink that low.

[KingyWingy]

Originally posted by dprog1995:

Originally posted by KingyWingy:

What gives you that idea?

The bulk of the game code would be the same. The renderer being different is not a problem.

This article:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ninjagaiden2-faceoff-article

Also sigma 2 is as good/bad as the original NG 2. This post from the reddit summed up Sigma vs Original 2 well.

Eh, those guys often make mistakes or over state things. I like their content but they rush things too much sometimes. They cite nothing for the claim that it is a whole new engine and that the game was completely remade, which it obviously isn't. If it were so quick and easy to redo everything then the developers would do that again now. Also the article goes on to cover adapting the game to work on the PS3 which is a contradiction to the whole new engine claim.

They also claim Oblivion and Enemy Territory Quake Wars as examples of a whole new engine, both of which are false. Oblivion as one of their examples is quite funny, that is a Bethesda made game.

I don't want the sigma versions. Any PS3 to Xbox 360 comparison is irrelevant to the PC version.

Originally posted by Vitim Hipocondria:

Ok what the ♥♥♥♥ is going on with this collection release? Someone on twitter just made a comparission between original Sigma and the screenshots for the collection release, and it turns out the texture quality in this collection is significantly WORSE than the textures of the original Sigma game:

RCPS3 (notice the samurai enemy textures):
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExYVwGrWYAQjN0E?format=jpg&name=large

Collection screenshot from Team Ninja's website:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExYX6ScXMAA73Y_?format=jpg&name=large


____________________________________________________

RCPS3:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExYXAN7XAAMVpr_?format=jpg&name=large

Collection (notice how blurry the textures on his sleeves are)
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExYXJwDXMAEVy8R?format=jpg&name=large


Are these incompetent guys at Team Ninja seriously compromising texture quality because they can't pack 3 ancient games in one package? I can't believe Team Ninja would sink that low.

That does look quite bad. But I will withhold judgment for the time being as that could be do to them using some icky post process AA and then the downscaling and compressing of the image for their website. However the marketing screenshots have no excuse for being such poor quality in the first place.

[mdesaleah]

They dont even NEED the source code xD

Just look at Kingdom Hearts collections. The source code wasnt there, but the devs were able to rebuild it based on physical discs.

[dprog1995]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

They dont even NEED the source code xD

Just look at Kingdom Hearts collections. The source code wasnt there, but the devs were able to rebuild it based on physical discs.

But this is Tecmo and not Square Enix.

Tecmo projects are far lower budget compared to SE.(Also without source code, you have to reverse engineer the game to remaster it which might make it more costly than having a source code.)

[mdesaleah]

Originally posted by dprog1995:

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

They dont even NEED the source code xD

Just look at Kingdom Hearts collections. The source code wasnt there, but the devs were able to rebuild it based on physical discs.

But this is Tecmo and not Square Enix.

Tecmo projects are far lower budget compared to SE.(Also without source code, you have to reverse engineer the game to remaster it which might make it more costly than having a source code.)

It’s more costly, but it’s also the preferred option.

Especially when they are only bothering to port the Sigma versions, which is already making fans uninterested

[Peelsepuuppi]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

They dont even NEED the source code xD

Just look at Kingdom Hearts collections. The source code wasnt there, but the devs were able to rebuild it based on physical discs.

Square Has way more money and KH is nowhere near as niche as NG. Reverse engineering the KH games might be worth it for KH games, but Ninja Gaiden is a cult classic.

People might prefer NGB and NG2 but the wallet vote doesn't favor that approach if SIgma games are more readily available for porting.

[Cardus]

Admittedly I know very little about these technical things, but isn't it odd how they claim that the code for Ninja Gaiden Black and Vanilla Ninja Gaiden 2 is lost yet they made updated, optimized versions for both games exclusive to next-gen Xbox consoles supporting 4k resolutions, graphical improvements and stable 60 fps?

Again, not an expert on technical mumbo jumbo, but it just sounds weird to me.
Could it be that they simply have an exclusivity-deal with Microsoft that keeps them from porting over those better versions and they used Sigma in this collection just to work around the (hypothetical ofc) contracts?

[Peelsepuuppi]

Originally posted by Cardus:

Admittedly I know very little about these technical things, but isn't it odd how they claim that the code for Ninja Gaiden Black and Vanilla Ninja Gaiden 2 is lost yet they made updated, optimized versions for both games exclusive to next-gen Xbox consoles supporting 4k resolutions, graphical improvements and stable 60 fps?

Again, not an expert on technical mumbo jumbo, but it just sounds weird to me.
Could it be that they simply have an exclusivity-deal with Microsoft that keeps them from porting over those better versions and they used Sigma in this collection just to work around the (hypothetical ofc) contracts?

How is that strange? IF they have the code for sigma they can use use it directly to port and make improvements.

If they don't have NGB and NG2 source code, but they have NGS1&2 It would mean that either they would have to reverse NGS games into NGB and NG2 by manually changing things back close to what it was before or they'd have to reverse engineer the source code from NGB NG2, neither of which is a trivial task.

Since they only have access to NGS source code it means the simplest thing to do is to update the Sigma versions and port them. Some people might say they are being lazy, but That's not it. You people didn't buy enough NG games back in the day to show Koei Tecmo and Ninja Theory that it would be financially worth it or even feasible to recreate NGB and NG2.

What is up with this particular steam board and all the weird ass conspiracy theorists here thinking that NT is just lying? Companies losing source code for older games and especially older versions of their games isn't exactly uncommon or an outlandish scenario. What would be their reason to lie about? If Microsoft has an exclusivity deal or holds some rights to the Original NT could have just said it. Kind of silly to assume lies and conspiracy when there's no benefit from it. I guess it's a coping mechanism for people who don't know how to deal with disappointment.

[Cardus]

No need to throw a fit buddy, I literally just said that I knew very little about technical BS and that I could easily be wrong about this.

Just sounded weird to me that "the code is lost and not salvageable" yet they upgraded those very same games on Xbox One X and Series S/X, if someone could (politely) explain how that's possible I'll gladly listen as they probably know a lot more on the subject than me.

I never said I was disappointed by Sigma's inclusion so dunno where you got that from (I'm really not disappointed at all, it's still Ninja Gaiden which means that it's still a top tier hack and slash) nor am I criticizing Team Ninja, Koei Tecmo or anyone involved.

Before talking about "coping mechanisms" or "conspiracy theories" and whatnot, maybe you should avoid getting so defensive over something that was quite clearly NOT an attack or an insult.

[hip]

Originally posted by Cardus:

No need to throw a fit buddy, I literally just said that I knew very little about technical BS and that I could easily be wrong about this.

Just sounded weird to me that "the code is lost and not salvageable" yet they upgraded those very same games on Xbox One X and Series S/X, if someone could (politely) explain how that's possible I'll gladly listen as they probably know a lot more on the subject than me.

They didn't upgraded it. Its just running on Xbox's backwards compability mode at 4k resolution. Its the same textures and those games already ran at 60 fps on the original consoles.

For the record i'm still pretty sure they're lying about Black and 2 being "impossible to use". They're so lazy they didn't even restored the gore for Sigma 2 even though they have already done that 11 years ago for the PS Vita port.